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Even without the fucked up math, it takes about ten seconds to figure out why this is happening.
NICU doctors and OBGYN surgeons are overwhelmingly white or asian. OBGYN practitioners in urban areas are going to be mostly black.
If the baby is fine and the mother is fine, they're just going to go to their closest labor and delivery ward, have the local black OB deliver their baby, and go home.
When it's a high risk pregnancy, usually because the woman didn't bother to go to any maternity checkups or has a shitty lifestyle and weighs 400 pounds, shit hits the fan and the white doctor is called in to fix the shitstorm.
Sometimes there's just no fixing it and the baby dies. But that baby was never even in the hands of a black doctor because the black OB from the local clinic knew they couldn't handle what was happening and sent them to the hospital or moved them from the maternity ward to emergency surgery.
The problem isn't white doctors killing black babies, for fuck's sake. The problem is not enough black doctors are highly trained emergency OB surgeons and NICU doctors and too many black women don't even see a doctor until the baby's coming.
Yep. Highest risk patients are placed with the most experienced physicians, and those tend to be white people.
All I know is if I need a surgeon they’ll be Asian or White after seeing how much of a disadvantage they’re given to get into medical school. I wonder if the medical board thought about that when they relaxed the requirements for “disadvantaged groups?” I don’t really give a fuck if their race is disadvantaged, I wanna know that they can fix my aneurysm.
Mine's a white liberal woman and I like to get under her skin about the bullshit masks and other plandemic BS. But she takes good care of me and since it's a men's only doctors office, she sees about 15 guys like me every day here in Texas.
That might change. My family doc referred a heart patient to the best local surgeon, who told the patient that the blockage was so great he could expect a big heart attack w/o surgery, and a small one even with surgery. Had an attack in recovery, and sued both Docs. Patient won because the expert who took on the hard cases had a higher rate of after-surgery heart attacks. If I was that expert, I'd be refusing more hard cases, and looking for the easy ones.
"The “frequently observed racial disparity in health care outcomes” is thought to stem from poverty, lack of access to medical care and biological predisposition to underlying health conditions, which Black people face at higher rates than white people, the study said."
It also talks about how black babies are more likely to have health complications such as low birth weight and pre term birth. Those complications usually happen because the mother did drugs, smoked, drank, or just didn't take care of herself during pregnancy. So what they are saying is black women are more likely to do bad things while pregnant 🤔
Yep, I noticed that as well. I just found it typical that at the very bottom they include this tiny bit of info that basically functions as a defense in case they get called out while >95% of people won't even get that far and are lead to believe something of which the writer fully knows it was framed incorrectly.
If there are "biological predispositions" that means there is an objective measurement of racial differences. Goes against the "social construct" and "systemic racism" arguments.
I read the report and thought "this screams of an unaccounted for confounding factor". I haven't read the paper, so I don't know what their controls were.
However if the results are this stark, we should have hundreds of case studies where it can be identified exactly what the white doctors did not do that lead to an infant death.
Yep. Relatively healthy Black mothers go to their nearest poor hospital which will have predominantly-Black nurse practitioners. Those with serious complications from not taking care of their health at all will go to a more advanced hospital with White and Asian docs; it's their complications that make it less likely their babies will survive.
That sounds like a reasonable explanation, something halfwit bloggers are not good at.
Another explanation might be that there are particular defects that affect races differently, and black doctors are more experienced with those defects simply by dealing with more black babies. Notice they never mentioned how white babies fare under black vs white doctors. Though your explanation makes more sense.
OMG. This is another case of journalists who cannot even do elementary school math.
But leaving that aside - they are still pointing to a study that HAS to be complete bullshit.
There has to be bad or faked data in this study.
Did you notice that they claimed maternal mortality had no difference ? Meaning that either racist white doctors are targeting ONLY the black babies - or alternatively, that "stupid" white doctors are killing black babies through incompetence - but that their incompetence does not extend to treating the mothers, oddly.
In my experience the OBs generally have a pediatrician on hand, they know little about babies. Certainly in a Caesarian, the OB can't be doing the immediate care for the baby. Maybe a nurse does but that wouldn't be considered the highest level of care although personally I think a lot of NICU nurses would be as good.
I see what you are saying - but I am just commenting on what the study is claiming. Your observations are lost deep down in the fine details of the raw data.
You have X number of white doctors and Y number of black doctors - mothers and babies are officially listed as being under the care of some listed doctor who is classified as white or black.
They are claiming that the white doctors have a worse outcome rate for babies, but not for the mothers.
They don't give any further specifics as far as the raw data.
The stats here are screwed up. 1/3 less surviving =/= 3x more dying
Also, lets consider where an infant dies. A neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) will be the most likely site of infant death, I would assume (looked for data to support the supposition, cannot find it though). In my experience I have yet to see a black NICU doctor - they are either white, middle eastern, or Indian. So an infant dying under the care of a black physician is likely on the floor (newborn nursery), presumed healthy, not considered needing NICU admission. If one were to really dive into this data, they may find care disparities that go in the exact opposite direction of the narrative they seek.
I wonder how much wellfare queens with “I din no I was pregate” syndrome who show up to an emergency room after 3-9 months of doing nothing for the life inside them and lose the baby impact these numbers.
Drinking, smoking, and drug use are all more prevalent in black women, (although the correlation is along economic lines, not racial lines, but since black people tend to be poorer, it shows up in race).
So yea, your FAS baby is certainly going to have a higher mortality rate
That's why I hate anybody who claims they need "loans for minority businesses" or really anything for minorities. There is no statistical correlation between skin color and success, it's purely a function of economic status.
So it is fair to say "poor people don't have good access to healthcare", but not "black people don't have good access to health care"
The former statement is factual and actionable, the latter statement is racist and incorrect. Yet the latter is all you hear about from liberals.
Not true! inner city folks (white and black) always listen to authority figures, and their wholesome lifestyles focusing on nutrition and self improvement is renown across the globe.
Assuming the data are even correct in the first place. How many babies die (post birth). It’s a small number that need neonatal care to begin with. Further, how many Dr. Cosby’s exist - black, doctor, and specialized as an obstruction? Not many. Income is a factor - perhaps better off blacks have more money and choose a black doctor at a better hospital than what other blacks have access to. They ‘posit’ that racial concordance may improve survivability for black babies but don’t say why (although I’m not paying $10 for a study that likely has some BS in it)...In the study did they look at the individual doctors and look at the ratio of ALL babies under their care and the outcomes - did it vary by race? Another sensationalists headline based on a ‘study’ that may have some value but all that matters is the conclusion and narrative.
I wanted to see if it was a matter of skill difference between doctors as the summary is a big claim. It’s confusing to read to me though, hopefully someone else can decipher.
Thank you my girlfriend has been arguing with some one about this study for a couple weeks but wasn’t going to pay for the study. She is excited to read it.
Similar arguments used regarding 'infant mortality' between US and European Nations...
In the US we try to save almost every premie... we operate in the womb' to save unborn babies with certain conditions.
-These are all conditions/illnesses that are 'tough cases' and many babies don't survive - that makes US infant Mortality numbers look bad when compared to European numbers...
BUT IN EUROPE they don't take on half as many tough cases... and those babies are never considered 'infants' - just 'failed pregnancies.'
The standards are so very different - . . . . then the LEFT comes in and says US healthcare is so much worse "look at infant mortality rates"...
-_-
They are lying - as always.
It is almost as if EVERYTHING THE LEFT IS SAYING - IS A TOTAL SHAM.
I know a labor and delivery nurse that worked in a poor white area. People were walking in with their 1 year olds, feeding them mountain dew out of baby bottles and the number of premature and drug addicted newborns was staggering because of moms smoking, drinking and doing drugs during the pregnancy.
Yet, people want to blame "the system" and the quality of care for people spending a lifetime of abusing their own bodies and not caring enough to make life changes while pregnant.
Obesity, heart disease and respiratory issues are responsible for the vast majority of medical expenses and a huge source of annual deaths and almost all of it is attributable to lifestyle choices and not quality of care.
I’ve also heard that in Europe they don’t consider a baby an infant until a couple weeks after birth. Perhaps it’s due to the condition that resulted in their death being considered from birth rather than developed after birth. I don’t really know but the important take away here is that these the comparisons are meaningless if the conditions aren’t the same.
Papers like this tend to tell you a fat load of nothing. The data is processed into statistics where you see neither the data nor the processing in full. It's effectively encrypted. Often results are tremendously lossy.
We don't know what the data looks like and how selective they're able to be in torturing the data.
We don't know how the data is measured or even how reliable it is. In terms of how the data is collected and then processed on its own has many significant major unknowns.
We do know the data only applies to Florida. The paper itself includes a listing of their limitations though it's certainly possible to overlook limitations as well. Unknown unknowns are not unknown to outweigh known unknowns.
There's science and then there's people people making their own assumptions. In this case you have rookie mistakes such as correlation is not causation. When it comes down to it in studies like this you can find you have far less data than you might of thought. Especially when generally speaking there's a tendency for the more samples the less variables.
Putting all of that aside assuming the data and results are correct there are dozens and eventually hundreds of plausible reasons you can posit all of which valid and it being likely for more than one having an impact.
Most studies today seek out to find a single cause or simple causes as a result of aggregates but in reality there are so many permutations and ways in which they effect things when they manifest that in many cases there is no simple explanation. Many of these measured systems also undergo polymorphism according to relatively arbitrary factors. Although people using statistics might believe they rule out noise that's not always fully achievable.
Out of all the possible variables not so many are racism. Being black or white carries covariables and correlations with other things some of which can be very difficult to measure, perhaps impossible.
The funniest oversight is that if there is racism that it must be the white people doing it to their own benefit or not caring about black babies or something.
In reality things can play out in all kinds of ways. In most games of chess both the black and white players make moves to serve their own colour but ultimately one ends up losing despite every move they make being self serving (barring stale mates). Intent and any given outcome are very often two very different things.
An input in this outcome could be the racist attitude of black parents toward white physicians. An increase in the deaths of black babies from white physicians could also be explained by them being racist in favour of black babies. Better or more protective treatment can lead to greater deaths. Biological systems can be counter intuitive. You shield a baby more from ambient pathogens and that can make things worse in terms of their immunity for example.
The author doesn't know shit about math. 3 times the death rate, which could be .1% vs .3% (as a random value example). But later describes survivability dropping to one third with white doctors. So, going from 99.9% in our previous example to 33.3%. I'm sure my fellow pedes are smart enough to find the flaw.
Also. Are black mothers hiding information about said child being addicted to drugs because it’s not acceptable to be a drug addict and pregnant if you’re white?
To be fair black women in general are at a higher risk for high blood pressure and diabetes without having poor diet and drug use. My wife who is black was a figure skater, and in great shape. She has high blood pressure even with her watching her diet and exercising more than my fat ass who has perfect blood pressure.
Black women are more likely to be induced at pregnancy resulting premature birth. They did try to have my son induced early, however I pushed back on that as induction of birth leads to higher rates of death for child and mother.
I have black friends and their thoughts are like a maze.they always fall back to systemic racism whenever there is any stat that doesn’t favor blacks. I always ask them if they think each groups should have the same outcome? They always say yes.i asked them whether they would like to reduce the number of black basketball and NFL players so that there would be more white and Asian players.they always get pissed off and say whites and asians don’t play basketball like blacks.i then tell them that they have proved my point.
This is the bullshit that they want you to believe.
They are claiming that white doctors are either much stupider than black doctors ( despite the fact that whites have a much higher IQ ) or that white doctors are killing. black babies because "WAAAAACISM".
Oddly, they find no difference with maternal mortality.
So the racist white doctors are targeting black babies for death while leaving the mothers alone, I suppose.
Because if the white doctors are merely stupid - they would be killing black babies and black mothers at the same rate, right ?
"Results examining 1.8 million hospital births in the state of Florida between 1992 and 2015 suggest that newborn–physician racial concordance is associated with a significant improvement in mortality for Black infants. Results further suggest that these benefits manifest during more challenging births and in hospitals that deliver more Black babies. We find no significant improvement in maternal mortality when birthing mothers share race with their physician."
I think you were trying to make the point that if the system was racist why are the deaths not spread equally across the whole system. But the way you wrote this comes off a little genocidal maniac-ish
It's old, but interesting. The numbers represented in this article are all over the place. 3X more likely to die? 1/3 more death? etc. They can't seem to get their units of measure straight. Also, check the author...
"Dr. Rachel R. Hardeman is a reproductive health equity researcher whose program of research applies the tools of population health science and health services research to elucidate a critical and complex determinant of health inequity—racism."
I didn't even know that there was such a thing. There are doctors that do nothing but study health inequality by race. Gee, you wouldn't think she'd find statistics that rationalize her job would ya?
I can't remember if that researcher was the only one, but one of the authors had a ton of articles, and the title seemed to suggest that everything is the fault of racism.
If you have an author that can find racism in anything, chances are good that the author will find racism in everything.
I didn't even know that there was such a thing. There are doctors that do nothing but study health inequality by race
Sadly, it is turning into the next medical "field" as far as medical corporations are concerned. The salaries of the useless people involved in the field have to be paid out of the total medical budget - so all these new 'experts" are doing is getting a free ride while driving up costs.
Health inequality by race is actually caused by trying to treat all people equally rather than specifically due to their ethnic differences. Basically being "racist" by giving people differing treatment and medicines based on "race", in medicine saves lives.
Right now certain groups do no receive the optimal care because people think that the treatment for one group should be the optimal treatment for others. Or that they are being treated poorly by racist doctors if they do not get the white person medicine.
This makes sense and means that you have to realistically recognize differences in socio-economic groups, races, locations where people live, etc. ie: African Americans in Mississippi have weight and diabetes issues because of diet while Native Indians on the Navajo reservation in New Mexico have alcohol problems. Upper middle class whites in the North East often have issues with depression, alcohol abuse and prescription drug abuse.
At least today I think medical pros can be honest about these things, but I fear a time when they won't be able to.
If a black baby is under the care if a black doctor, they are getting a checkup. If a black baby is under the care of a white doctor, they are in a NICU, an ER, or a Planned Parenthood.
“Our findings demonstrate that when newborns and the physicians treating them are of the same race, that newborn survival rate is significantly improved,” study co-author Rachel Hardeman, an associate professor in the School of Public Health at the University of Minnesota, said in a news release.
So, Diversity Is Not A Strength?
analyzed 1.8 million hospital births in Florida between 1992 and 2015
Obviously a big sample size, but just that one specific area. They probably looked at 48 other states, they couldn't be bothered with Missouri, and as the stats went against them they just excluded them.
Also, the media may be pushing some UN-approved agenda.
Opinion: To save Black lives, we need more Black doctors - CNN
Black patients experience less pain with Black doctors
During pandemic, Black families put trust in Black doctors
Minority patients do better when treated by doctors who share the same race or ethnicity But there's a problem. Most doctors are white, and only 6% of doctors are black.
The Secret to Keeping Black Men Healthy? Maybe Black Doctors
Michael Bloomberg donating $100M to historically Black medical schools
The entire research paper was done with the intention of creating controversy. The authors get publicity and will almost certainly reap some nice financial gains from making diversity noises in a scientific paper. They do these things because they are incompetent to do any real medical research.
Oh I’m sure, black babies die more at the hands of black doctors because they get to cheat their way through medical school and get affirmative action.
You think maybe if there were chimneys spewing out the ashes of the dead and a sign saying “democrats set you free” over planned genocide people would get it?
Aside from the bad math, this “study” confuses correlation with causation.
Did they control for underlying illness of the child, or requirement for subspecialist care? Of course not. That would have been the basic scientific thing to do.
If the sickest children or those with genetic disease, childhood cancer, etc are mostly being treated by “white” doctors, of course there will be higher mortality that has nothing to do with race.
Gee, you think? We had Joe Sniffin Biden tell us that "white people will be a minority in this country, and that's a good thing" years ago.
They want to replace you, personally, your family, your people.
They also want to subvert and desecreate anything you deem worthy to protect and preserve, hence the neverending push to sexualize children.
I can't even imagine hating a people (or nation) so much that I'd try to push pedophilia on them.
These are the people you're dealing with. You better get used to the idea of war.
First off, 1/3rd and "3 times" are not the same thing.... Second off, if you're doing a study on infant mortality, can you at least <b> try </b> to differentiate between high risk cases under the care of a specialist vs run of the mill cases...
It is because healthy black babies were fine going to the local clinic where a black doctor was presiding.
Then you get black babies with serious life threatening issues, they are sent to specialists (who apparently are more often white) and the survival rate is reduced because of the seriousness of the illness.
This is a perfect example of using statistics to lie.
There was a very long article in last Sunday's local paper about how black women are treated way worse than white women by white doctors. The piece focused on how often black women have stillbirths and then goes on about the factors leading up to the higher rate. They include illegal drug use, obesity, type 2 diabetes and poor prenatal care. All the fault of the white medical establishment.
I figure that doctors will be next on the chopping block. Black people die at younger ages, have more obesity and so-on, this will obviously need to be somebody's fault at some point. Other than KFC's I mean.
Soo, how many "doctors" or "care providers" interacted with that black mother? When did they interact? How many of them were black? How many interactions were from whites/Asians?
Trump should just start tweeting questions like this and do the job journalists won't.
They don't want a race war. They may think they do, but they don't. There are millions of white people who wake up before dark in the freezing cold and climb up in a tree just for the chance to kill something because they think it's fun.
BIG DUH! To the morons who did the study: Do you want to know the secret? Do you promise not to tell?
The white doctors are routinely given the high risk babies who are born with problems. Do you really think they would place them in the care of affirmative action docs ?
By all means -- give the affirmative action docs the high risk newborns and watch the numbers not only equalize, but most likely skyrocket.
I've been lurking for awhile. I saw this on reddit awhile back and had to comment on it then because it's such a tremendously flawed study. For example, they don't account for the base-rate of doctors, e.g. what percentage of doctors are white/black/etc. If memory serves, there are 10x more white doctors than black which means they are going to treat 10x more babies. Combine this with the fact that black babies are more likely to die in general (for whatever reason), the increased number of deaths within the group of doctors who are white is due to the fact that they treat more babies.
Their error is that they frame the data as deaths per thousand births, when it should be deaths per thousand doctors. Deaths per thousand births will happen more in a larger group of doctors because they treat more babies. The people who published this "study" are either knuckle-dragging retards or hyper-partisan hacks. You can't call it science in the slightest - the "study" makes too many elementary errors.
This is something that I've been noticing for awhile and it's starting to really annoy me. There are a bunch of "researchers" cranking out complete garbage and slapping the word "science" onto it and it dilutes the real literature and soils the name of science. Unfortunately many of them are (ostensibly) highly educated, which begs the question of how on Earth they even passed their entry level classes, but I digress.
"We posit that these differences may be ameliorated by racial concordance between the physician and newborn patient."
Then at the bottom (results):
"Results further suggest that these benefits manifest during more challenging births and in hospitals that deliver more Black babies. We find no significant improvement in maternal mortality when birthing mothers share race with their physician."
I guess it's time to defund hospitals! We need a new system of community led medicine, with spiritual healers to decolonize medicine. There are other ways of performing medicine
In any sort of civil/race war scenario, I would do everything in my power to deliver comeuppance onto members of the mainstream media who caused it. Maybe I would be successful, maybe I wouldn’t - maybe, I could help someone else succeed. But, I would give it a go.
“ A large body of work highlights disparities in survival rates across Black and White newborns during childbirth. We posit that these differences may be ameliorated by racial concordance between the physician and newborn patient. Findings suggest that when Black newborns are cared for by Black physicians, the mortality penalty they suffer, as compared with White infants, is halved. Strikingly, these effects appear to manifest more strongly in more complicated cases, and when hospitals deliver more Black newborns. No such concordance effect is found among birthing mothers.“
The study shows Asians and other non black doctors as having the same result.
Yet they only point out white. They also ignore many many other factors.
Even without the fucked up math, it takes about ten seconds to figure out why this is happening.
NICU doctors and OBGYN surgeons are overwhelmingly white or asian. OBGYN practitioners in urban areas are going to be mostly black.
If the baby is fine and the mother is fine, they're just going to go to their closest labor and delivery ward, have the local black OB deliver their baby, and go home.
When it's a high risk pregnancy, usually because the woman didn't bother to go to any maternity checkups or has a shitty lifestyle and weighs 400 pounds, shit hits the fan and the white doctor is called in to fix the shitstorm.
Sometimes there's just no fixing it and the baby dies. But that baby was never even in the hands of a black doctor because the black OB from the local clinic knew they couldn't handle what was happening and sent them to the hospital or moved them from the maternity ward to emergency surgery.
The problem isn't white doctors killing black babies, for fuck's sake. The problem is not enough black doctors are highly trained emergency OB surgeons and NICU doctors and too many black women don't even see a doctor until the baby's coming.
Those are what we call "hate facts"
REEEEEEEEEEported!!!
Yep. Highest risk patients are placed with the most experienced physicians, and those tend to be white people.
All I know is if I need a surgeon they’ll be Asian or White after seeing how much of a disadvantage they’re given to get into medical school. I wonder if the medical board thought about that when they relaxed the requirements for “disadvantaged groups?” I don’t really give a fuck if their race is disadvantaged, I wanna know that they can fix my aneurysm.
Same here.
But because an Asian needs a 93% GPA and a black American needs a 73%... You'll still have the 95% type black doctors. But it isn't every single one.
Mine's a white liberal woman and I like to get under her skin about the bullshit masks and other plandemic BS. But she takes good care of me and since it's a men's only doctors office, she sees about 15 guys like me every day here in Texas.
It's amazing how backwards our world has gotten that the left is making us sound racist when it has nothing to do with racism.
The first part of your sentence "A black doctor walks in and I'm on alert for incompetence" sounds so racist until the logic comes in.
I hate what the left has done to our country.
They are creating racism.
They're color coding the competence metrics.
Consider the following:
A non-white doctor now is given advantages over equally or greater qualified white candidates both in education access and job access.
This means that in order to reach the same point a white doctor has to work harder and be significantly better.
This has always been the goal of the commie left, to make life harder for white people.
That might change. My family doc referred a heart patient to the best local surgeon, who told the patient that the blockage was so great he could expect a big heart attack w/o surgery, and a small one even with surgery. Had an attack in recovery, and sued both Docs. Patient won because the expert who took on the hard cases had a higher rate of after-surgery heart attacks. If I was that expert, I'd be refusing more hard cases, and looking for the easy ones.
All the way at the bottom of the article:
"The “frequently observed racial disparity in health care outcomes” is thought to stem from poverty, lack of access to medical care and biological predisposition to underlying health conditions, which Black people face at higher rates than white people, the study said."
But RACE isn't REAL, bigot
Purely economic factors!!!!!
Burgers?
lmao
It also talks about how black babies are more likely to have health complications such as low birth weight and pre term birth. Those complications usually happen because the mother did drugs, smoked, drank, or just didn't take care of herself during pregnancy. So what they are saying is black women are more likely to do bad things while pregnant 🤔
Yep, I noticed that as well. I just found it typical that at the very bottom they include this tiny bit of info that basically functions as a defense in case they get called out while >95% of people won't even get that far and are lead to believe something of which the writer fully knows it was framed incorrectly.
If there are "biological predispositions" that means there is an objective measurement of racial differences. Goes against the "social construct" and "systemic racism" arguments.
I read the report and thought "this screams of an unaccounted for confounding factor". I haven't read the paper, so I don't know what their controls were.
However if the results are this stark, we should have hundreds of case studies where it can be identified exactly what the white doctors did not do that lead to an infant death.
Yep. Relatively healthy Black mothers go to their nearest poor hospital which will have predominantly-Black nurse practitioners. Those with serious complications from not taking care of their health at all will go to a more advanced hospital with White and Asian docs; it's their complications that make it less likely their babies will survive.
That sounds like a reasonable explanation, something halfwit bloggers are not good at.
Another explanation might be that there are particular defects that affect races differently, and black doctors are more experienced with those defects simply by dealing with more black babies. Notice they never mentioned how white babies fare under black vs white doctors. Though your explanation makes more sense.
No way I would let a Black AA doctor treat my future kids.
Your explanation is off the mark. You need to look at the raw data to see the fuckery here - and they don't show the raw data.
We cannot see which kind of cases are going to white doctors versus black doctors.
OMG. This is another case of journalists who cannot even do elementary school math.
But leaving that aside - they are still pointing to a study that HAS to be complete bullshit.
There has to be bad or faked data in this study.
Did you notice that they claimed maternal mortality had no difference ? Meaning that either racist white doctors are targeting ONLY the black babies - or alternatively, that "stupid" white doctors are killing black babies through incompetence - but that their incompetence does not extend to treating the mothers, oddly.
Another good point. Sickly babies often have sickly moms, or moms who don't know how to care for babies.
The mothers and babies are being treated by the same doctors.
If white doctors are incompetent - that incompetence would be seen equally for babies and mothers.
There is no reason that incompetent white doctors should be messing up with the babies but not messing up with the mothers.
Same logic applies if you assume "WAAAACISM".
In my experience the OBs generally have a pediatrician on hand, they know little about babies. Certainly in a Caesarian, the OB can't be doing the immediate care for the baby. Maybe a nurse does but that wouldn't be considered the highest level of care although personally I think a lot of NICU nurses would be as good.
I see what you are saying - but I am just commenting on what the study is claiming. Your observations are lost deep down in the fine details of the raw data.
You have X number of white doctors and Y number of black doctors - mothers and babies are officially listed as being under the care of some listed doctor who is classified as white or black.
They are claiming that the white doctors have a worse outcome rate for babies, but not for the mothers.
They don't give any further specifics as far as the raw data.
This is the abstract and references:
https://www.pnas.org/content/117/35/21194
Not going to pay $10 for this report. They claim these are all hospital births. I think the references tell all you need about muh systemic racism.
2+2=5 under certain contexts these days remember
The Real headline is: There are just fewer black doctors
CNN Race bait insanity. They don’t have power if we don’t hate each other. Their headline is criminal, it is that dishonest.
CNN ARTICLE: 👉 Black newborn babies in the US...
Came here to say this. A casual read of the sentence tells you the math doesn’t work. Unreal.
The stats here are screwed up. 1/3 less surviving =/= 3x more dying
Also, lets consider where an infant dies. A neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) will be the most likely site of infant death, I would assume (looked for data to support the supposition, cannot find it though). In my experience I have yet to see a black NICU doctor - they are either white, middle eastern, or Indian. So an infant dying under the care of a black physician is likely on the floor (newborn nursery), presumed healthy, not considered needing NICU admission. If one were to really dive into this data, they may find care disparities that go in the exact opposite direction of the narrative they seek.
They would.
I wonder how much wellfare queens with “I din no I was pregate” syndrome who show up to an emergency room after 3-9 months of doing nothing for the life inside them and lose the baby impact these numbers.
True. ED death of an infant will enter the data. Again, scarce black ED docs
Drinking, smoking, and drug use are all more prevalent in black women, (although the correlation is along economic lines, not racial lines, but since black people tend to be poorer, it shows up in race).
So yea, your FAS baby is certainly going to have a higher mortality rate
Oh trust me... where I come from, there are welfare queens of all colors.
That's why I hate anybody who claims they need "loans for minority businesses" or really anything for minorities. There is no statistical correlation between skin color and success, it's purely a function of economic status.
So it is fair to say "poor people don't have good access to healthcare", but not "black people don't have good access to health care"
The former statement is factual and actionable, the latter statement is racist and incorrect. Yet the latter is all you hear about from liberals.
My hunch is that the black patients are less likely to trust and thus listen to a white doctor as compared to a black doctor.
Not true! inner city folks (white and black) always listen to authority figures, and their wholesome lifestyles focusing on nutrition and self improvement is renown across the globe.
Now pass me that purple drank!
Is this the sequel or the prequel?
Edit - Confirmed: https://labblog.uofmhealth.org/rounds/minority-patients-benefit-from-having-minority-doctors-but-thats-a-hard-match-to-make-0
Assuming the data are even correct in the first place. How many babies die (post birth). It’s a small number that need neonatal care to begin with. Further, how many Dr. Cosby’s exist - black, doctor, and specialized as an obstruction? Not many. Income is a factor - perhaps better off blacks have more money and choose a black doctor at a better hospital than what other blacks have access to. They ‘posit’ that racial concordance may improve survivability for black babies but don’t say why (although I’m not paying $10 for a study that likely has some BS in it)...In the study did they look at the individual doctors and look at the ratio of ALL babies under their care and the outcomes - did it vary by race? Another sensationalists headline based on a ‘study’ that may have some value but all that matters is the conclusion and narrative.
Use this site: https://sci-hub.tw/
And enter the study link: https://www.pnas.org/content/117/35/21194
I wanted to see if it was a matter of skill difference between doctors as the summary is a big claim. It’s confusing to read to me though, hopefully someone else can decipher.
https://sci-hub.tw/https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/08/12/1913405117
Thank you my girlfriend has been arguing with some one about this study for a couple weeks but wasn’t going to pay for the study. She is excited to read it.
NICE LINK! Thank you! Never knew about this site - works great.
The CDC's 2017 data has al rates) has 5.79 deaths per 1,000 live births.
(10.97 for Black infants vs 4.67 for White infants)
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_10-508.pdf
So the last part is regardless of doctors’ race. So, small sample size to start with.
There's often a difference in (or a lack of) prenatal care.
Stats and Lies...
All the super tough cases for ill infants get moved to 'specialists' - and all the specialists are white....
"those cases" have lesser and lesser chances for success - regardless of who the doctor is.
This is likely the correct reason.
Similar arguments used regarding 'infant mortality' between US and European Nations...
In the US we try to save almost every premie... we operate in the womb' to save unborn babies with certain conditions.
-These are all conditions/illnesses that are 'tough cases' and many babies don't survive - that makes US infant Mortality numbers look bad when compared to European numbers... BUT IN EUROPE they don't take on half as many tough cases... and those babies are never considered 'infants' - just 'failed pregnancies.'
The standards are so very different - . . . . then the LEFT comes in and says US healthcare is so much worse "look at infant mortality rates"...
-_-
They are lying - as always.
It is almost as if EVERYTHING THE LEFT IS SAYING - IS A TOTAL SHAM.
I know a labor and delivery nurse that worked in a poor white area. People were walking in with their 1 year olds, feeding them mountain dew out of baby bottles and the number of premature and drug addicted newborns was staggering because of moms smoking, drinking and doing drugs during the pregnancy.
Yet, people want to blame "the system" and the quality of care for people spending a lifetime of abusing their own bodies and not caring enough to make life changes while pregnant.
Obesity, heart disease and respiratory issues are responsible for the vast majority of medical expenses and a huge source of annual deaths and almost all of it is attributable to lifestyle choices and not quality of care.
I’ve also heard that in Europe they don’t consider a baby an infant until a couple weeks after birth. Perhaps it’s due to the condition that resulted in their death being considered from birth rather than developed after birth. I don’t really know but the important take away here is that these the comparisons are meaningless if the conditions aren’t the same.
SImple rebuttal.
It's not infant mortality, it's just a cluster of nonviable cells that the host rejected.
Papers like this tend to tell you a fat load of nothing. The data is processed into statistics where you see neither the data nor the processing in full. It's effectively encrypted. Often results are tremendously lossy.
We don't know what the data looks like and how selective they're able to be in torturing the data.
We don't know how the data is measured or even how reliable it is. In terms of how the data is collected and then processed on its own has many significant major unknowns.
We do know the data only applies to Florida. The paper itself includes a listing of their limitations though it's certainly possible to overlook limitations as well. Unknown unknowns are not unknown to outweigh known unknowns.
There's science and then there's people people making their own assumptions. In this case you have rookie mistakes such as correlation is not causation. When it comes down to it in studies like this you can find you have far less data than you might of thought. Especially when generally speaking there's a tendency for the more samples the less variables.
Putting all of that aside assuming the data and results are correct there are dozens and eventually hundreds of plausible reasons you can posit all of which valid and it being likely for more than one having an impact.
Most studies today seek out to find a single cause or simple causes as a result of aggregates but in reality there are so many permutations and ways in which they effect things when they manifest that in many cases there is no simple explanation. Many of these measured systems also undergo polymorphism according to relatively arbitrary factors. Although people using statistics might believe they rule out noise that's not always fully achievable.
Out of all the possible variables not so many are racism. Being black or white carries covariables and correlations with other things some of which can be very difficult to measure, perhaps impossible.
The funniest oversight is that if there is racism that it must be the white people doing it to their own benefit or not caring about black babies or something.
In reality things can play out in all kinds of ways. In most games of chess both the black and white players make moves to serve their own colour but ultimately one ends up losing despite every move they make being self serving (barring stale mates). Intent and any given outcome are very often two very different things.
An input in this outcome could be the racist attitude of black parents toward white physicians. An increase in the deaths of black babies from white physicians could also be explained by them being racist in favour of black babies. Better or more protective treatment can lead to greater deaths. Biological systems can be counter intuitive. You shield a baby more from ambient pathogens and that can make things worse in terms of their immunity for example.
The author doesn't know shit about math. 3 times the death rate, which could be .1% vs .3% (as a random value example). But later describes survivability dropping to one third with white doctors. So, going from 99.9% in our previous example to 33.3%. I'm sure my fellow pedes are smart enough to find the flaw.
Basically what I said. Not a lot of babies are dying on the whole. The relative difference is probably small.
Also. Are black mothers hiding information about said child being addicted to drugs because it’s not acceptable to be a drug addict and pregnant if you’re white?
It’s all so misleading.
It’s black moms fault, but nothing is ever their fault.
To be fair black women in general are at a higher risk for high blood pressure and diabetes without having poor diet and drug use. My wife who is black was a figure skater, and in great shape. She has high blood pressure even with her watching her diet and exercising more than my fat ass who has perfect blood pressure.
Black women are more likely to be induced at pregnancy resulting premature birth. They did try to have my son induced early, however I pushed back on that as induction of birth leads to higher rates of death for child and mother.
I have black friends and their thoughts are like a maze.they always fall back to systemic racism whenever there is any stat that doesn’t favor blacks. I always ask them if they think each groups should have the same outcome? They always say yes.i asked them whether they would like to reduce the number of black basketball and NFL players so that there would be more white and Asian players.they always get pissed off and say whites and asians don’t play basketball like blacks.i then tell them that they have proved my point.
The most sick babies are treated by the best doctors.
This is the bullshit that they want you to believe.
They are claiming that white doctors are either much stupider than black doctors ( despite the fact that whites have a much higher IQ ) or that white doctors are killing. black babies because "WAAAAACISM".
Oddly, they find no difference with maternal mortality.
So the racist white doctors are targeting black babies for death while leaving the mothers alone, I suppose.
Because if the white doctors are merely stupid - they would be killing black babies and black mothers at the same rate, right ?
"Results examining 1.8 million hospital births in the state of Florida between 1992 and 2015 suggest that newborn–physician racial concordance is associated with a significant improvement in mortality for Black infants. Results further suggest that these benefits manifest during more challenging births and in hospitals that deliver more Black babies. We find no significant improvement in maternal mortality when birthing mothers share race with their physician."
I think you were trying to make the point that if the system was racist why are the deaths not spread equally across the whole system. But the way you wrote this comes off a little genocidal maniac-ish
It's old, but interesting. The numbers represented in this article are all over the place. 3X more likely to die? 1/3 more death? etc. They can't seem to get their units of measure straight. Also, check the author...
https://directory.sph.umn.edu/bio/sph-a-z/rachel-hardeman
From her BIO:
"Dr. Rachel R. Hardeman is a reproductive health equity researcher whose program of research applies the tools of population health science and health services research to elucidate a critical and complex determinant of health inequity—racism."
I didn't even know that there was such a thing. There are doctors that do nothing but study health inequality by race. Gee, you wouldn't think she'd find statistics that rationalize her job would ya?
I can't remember if that researcher was the only one, but one of the authors had a ton of articles, and the title seemed to suggest that everything is the fault of racism.
If you have an author that can find racism in anything, chances are good that the author will find racism in everything.
"If you are a hammer, everything is a nail."
Sadly, it is turning into the next medical "field" as far as medical corporations are concerned. The salaries of the useless people involved in the field have to be paid out of the total medical budget - so all these new 'experts" are doing is getting a free ride while driving up costs.
Health inequality by race is actually caused by trying to treat all people equally rather than specifically due to their ethnic differences. Basically being "racist" by giving people differing treatment and medicines based on "race", in medicine saves lives.
Right now certain groups do no receive the optimal care because people think that the treatment for one group should be the optimal treatment for others. Or that they are being treated poorly by racist doctors if they do not get the white person medicine.
This makes sense and means that you have to realistically recognize differences in socio-economic groups, races, locations where people live, etc. ie: African Americans in Mississippi have weight and diabetes issues because of diet while Native Indians on the Navajo reservation in New Mexico have alcohol problems. Upper middle class whites in the North East often have issues with depression, alcohol abuse and prescription drug abuse.
At least today I think medical pros can be honest about these things, but I fear a time when they won't be able to.
If a black baby is under the care if a black doctor, they are getting a checkup. If a black baby is under the care of a white doctor, they are in a NICU, an ER, or a Planned Parenthood.
Aren't all our doctors from India now?
So crazy, had to try to read the trash.
So, Diversity Is Not A Strength?
Obviously a big sample size, but just that one specific area. They probably looked at 48 other states, they couldn't be bothered with Missouri, and as the stats went against them they just excluded them.
Also, the media may be pushing some UN-approved agenda.
There it is.
Whatever happened to that Dr. Cliff Huxtable?
He was slipping patients roofies.
The entire research paper was done with the intention of creating controversy. The authors get publicity and will almost certainly reap some nice financial gains from making diversity noises in a scientific paper. They do these things because they are incompetent to do any real medical research.
Oh I’m sure, black babies die more at the hands of black doctors because they get to cheat their way through medical school and get affirmative action.
Anything with risk goes to better (white) doctors. Doesn't take a degree to deliver when there are no complications.
100% more likely not die when entering a Planned Parenthood. And just where did the Democrats build the PP abortion factories?
Reminds me how most of the rotten vegetables in South Africa are grown by white farmers.
You think maybe if there were chimneys spewing out the ashes of the dead and a sign saying “democrats set you free” over planned genocide people would get it?
I'm not even sure most people who read your comment will get the parody.
Aside from the bad math, this “study” confuses correlation with causation.
Did they control for underlying illness of the child, or requirement for subspecialist care? Of course not. That would have been the basic scientific thing to do.
If the sickest children or those with genetic disease, childhood cancer, etc are mostly being treated by “white” doctors, of course there will be higher mortality that has nothing to do with race.
I'm sure "peer review" editorial staff put this one straight to the front, without any review.
I bet it’s compliance
Then use a black doctor, problem solved.
Gee, you think? We had Joe Sniffin Biden tell us that "white people will be a minority in this country, and that's a good thing" years ago.
They want to replace you, personally, your family, your people.
They also want to subvert and desecreate anything you deem worthy to protect and preserve, hence the neverending push to sexualize children.
I can't even imagine hating a people (or nation) so much that I'd try to push pedophilia on them. These are the people you're dealing with. You better get used to the idea of war.
BTW, I just looked at the Linked In of Katie Camero, the "journalist" of this shit article.
This is her first job out of college. She went to an Art high School, Journalism School and then some internships.
Don't ask what kind of math she had to do in Art High School or J school. LOL.
Wypeopo ate my baby!!!
Charlotte is cucked, started happening before I left. It's full-blown now, I hate that they have started destroying NC. It pains me daily.
First off, 1/3rd and "3 times" are not the same thing.... Second off, if you're doing a study on infant mortality, can you at least <b> try </b> to differentiate between high risk cases under the care of a specialist vs run of the mill cases...
I'm sure it's full of logic
It is because healthy black babies were fine going to the local clinic where a black doctor was presiding.
Then you get black babies with serious life threatening issues, they are sent to specialists (who apparently are more often white) and the survival rate is reduced because of the seriousness of the illness.
This is a perfect example of using statistics to lie.
Charlotte is a hotbed of lies and Propaganda...
There was a very long article in last Sunday's local paper about how black women are treated way worse than white women by white doctors. The piece focused on how often black women have stillbirths and then goes on about the factors leading up to the higher rate. They include illegal drug use, obesity, type 2 diabetes and poor prenatal care. All the fault of the white medical establishment.
I figure that doctors will be next on the chopping block. Black people die at younger ages, have more obesity and so-on, this will obviously need to be somebody's fault at some point. Other than KFC's I mean.
Soo, how many "doctors" or "care providers" interacted with that black mother? When did they interact? How many of them were black? How many interactions were from whites/Asians?
Trump should just start tweeting questions like this and do the job journalists won't.
They don't want a race war. They may think they do, but they don't. There are millions of white people who wake up before dark in the freezing cold and climb up in a tree just for the chance to kill something because they think it's fun.
Anybody notice anything about the author of the article? I'm sure it's just another coincidence...
Study is code for making shit up to use as "facts".
Black doctors are given the easiest cases. Boom.
BIG DUH! To the morons who did the study: Do you want to know the secret? Do you promise not to tell?
The white doctors are routinely given the high risk babies who are born with problems. Do you really think they would place them in the care of affirmative action docs ?
By all means -- give the affirmative action docs the high risk newborns and watch the numbers not only equalize, but most likely skyrocket.
I've been lurking for awhile. I saw this on reddit awhile back and had to comment on it then because it's such a tremendously flawed study. For example, they don't account for the base-rate of doctors, e.g. what percentage of doctors are white/black/etc. If memory serves, there are 10x more white doctors than black which means they are going to treat 10x more babies. Combine this with the fact that black babies are more likely to die in general (for whatever reason), the increased number of deaths within the group of doctors who are white is due to the fact that they treat more babies.
Their error is that they frame the data as deaths per thousand births, when it should be deaths per thousand doctors. Deaths per thousand births will happen more in a larger group of doctors because they treat more babies. The people who published this "study" are either knuckle-dragging retards or hyper-partisan hacks. You can't call it science in the slightest - the "study" makes too many elementary errors.
This is something that I've been noticing for awhile and it's starting to really annoy me. There are a bunch of "researchers" cranking out complete garbage and slapping the word "science" onto it and it dilutes the real literature and soils the name of science. Unfortunately many of them are (ostensibly) highly educated, which begs the question of how on Earth they even passed their entry level classes, but I digress.
Black is capitalized and white is not
More race baiting, not looking at the real factors in play just trying to get people angry. Man I hate the media
This is simple. Most people in that feild are white. Thus if you take the numbers and word it in such a way they technically become correct.
The article: https://www.pnas.org/content/117/35/21194
"We posit that these differences may be ameliorated by racial concordance between the physician and newborn patient."
Then at the bottom (results):
"Results further suggest that these benefits manifest during more challenging births and in hospitals that deliver more Black babies. We find no significant improvement in maternal mortality when birthing mothers share race with their physician."
I guess it's time to defund hospitals! We need a new system of community led medicine, with spiritual healers to decolonize medicine. There are other ways of performing medicine
In any sort of civil/race war scenario, I would do everything in my power to deliver comeuppance onto members of the mainstream media who caused it. Maybe I would be successful, maybe I wouldn’t - maybe, I could help someone else succeed. But, I would give it a go.
“ A large body of work highlights disparities in survival rates across Black and White newborns during childbirth. We posit that these differences may be ameliorated by racial concordance between the physician and newborn patient. Findings suggest that when Black newborns are cared for by Black physicians, the mortality penalty they suffer, as compared with White infants, is halved. Strikingly, these effects appear to manifest more strongly in more complicated cases, and when hospitals deliver more Black newborns. No such concordance effect is found among birthing mothers.“
The study shows Asians and other non black doctors as having the same result.
Yet they only point out white. They also ignore many many other factors.
The democrat fix for this is to abort more black babies