Be Me, 20 years old. Psych Major. Rocking the blue hair (and would totally do it again, fyi....)
Get red pilled after the election in 2016 (I didn’t vote.) Lurk on the Donald, start seeing the bullshit the mainstream media censors Get somewhat alienated by very well meaning but brainwashed loved ones. You know, the ones who honestly want the best for humanity and have been brainwashed by the commies. Obtain Trauma. Go to counseling, etc to try to process/bury feelings about this. Stuff them deep down and try to move on.
Be Me in 2020. 24. The world is on fire. Person in my life gets red pilled. Person starts sending me red-pilly stuff. Feelings re-surface. See how badly America looks like it’s falling to globalism and communism
Fuck it. See you fuckers in November.
For me, the biggest problem is that leftists are no longer about "safe and rare" abortions. The "rare" part has been forgotten and is now essentially being used as birth control. A lot of leftists have legit started to fantasize abortions. Things like abortions unto 9 months (NY and Virginia) and the Virginia governor talking about abortion even after birth (infanticide).
Imo, if abortion really needs to stay, it should have a cut off date and that should be when a heart beat can be detected (I think it's 6 weeks). I understand that some would say "life starts at conception" and I get it - that's why even if abortion is to be allowed up to 6 weeks, people need to be taught that "we shall allow abortion but remember that it IS taking a life". I think people have forgotten that.
I just had this conversation. I think it should be 12 weeks.
Enough time for the woman to realize she’s pregnant, decide she doesn’t want it, make arrangements, and get the procedure.
After 12 weeks, whatever.
Do you think over the counter birth control would have helped you?
Republicans have repeatedly pushed for OTC birth control, but every politician taking money from Planned Parenthood votes against it. This no compromise attitude and their mishandling of patients is why I'm mostly against abortions.
A reasonable debate about abortion? What is this, bizzaro world?
I had Plan B a different time when I was in high school. That did help me. I’m grateful I had access to it.
For the record, my abortion wasn’t done with Planned Parenthood.
For the record, this post isn't directed at you so much as everyone else who may be reading this thread. I went through a change of mind on this subject over the years and wanted to add my own thoughts.
This is a 12 week old. I don't think it's unreasonable that some people consider that to be a person, with the legal protections of one. A common retort to this I see is, "it's not a person because it isn't done developing, and if it were prematurely born outside the womb it wouldn't be viable."
To the first argument, what determines if something has developed fully? Is a dwarf ever fully developed? Is a person under 25 fully developed if their brain is still undergoing changes? What about someone with autism or mental retardation? Are people missing limbs, hearing, sight, or suffering from dementia no longer developed and therefore worth less to society over time? If I kill a senior citizen rather than a healthy adult, should I be sentenced to less time in prison? Really, what I'm trying to say is why is someone's state of being or stage of development even a factor in this one particular case when it's (hopefully) not considered in others?
To the second argument, I've never seen a baby that was able to pop out of its mum's womb fully developed and start taking care of itself... Newborns are entirely dependent on their parents to feed, change, wash, and protect them so that they can continue developing. This is what I found so disturbing about the Ralph Northam audio referring to a non-viable fetus outside the mother's body. Literally all babies could be classified as non-viable if it just means that they need to develop further before they can reach "autopilot" mode outside of the uterus. And what if they get old and become non-viable again due to health issues that require intervention (say, by a machine)?
Finally, there's the consistency issue... if a pregnant woman is stabbed and her fetus dies, was that a murder? Was the mother-to-be not robbed of a son or daughter?
That's a very practical point. 6 weeks, many people simply wouldn't notice, or even think they might be pregnant. Double that and don't notice? Hmmm ...
12 weeks would be FAR more restrictive than usual practice. These are the conversations the Nation should have on the topic.
Wait, so you mean RBG's passing shouldn't be a watershed moment on the issue?!? Whether the replacement is Jewish or female shouldn't matter and neither should their melanin content?
You radical. I bet somebody had a dream about something like this. The audacity of thinking the content of their character and competency at their job could be the basis for decisions, and not the color of their skin. Are you trying to make the US the greatest Nation ever or something?
I'm personally against abortion, but realize I live in a country with 330M other people who don't see it the same way.
I'd agree to a 12 week compromise as well, on the condition that we fund research into more BC that is more effective and long-lasting.
12 weeks seems like the best compromise. Thanks for being open minded.
This is the most reasonable pro choice position I have ever heard! Compassionate, humane, etc.
This is the kind of constructive debate that should occur around such tense issues. Good on you for speaking your mind, and entertaining the other side. I so badly wish the 'liberal' side of arguments were delivered with the levity you've shown here!
Thanks. I’ve responded in a childish way to some assholes who hate the idea of a woman who thinks for herself and finds fulfillment without birthing kids or getting married.
But I find a lot of people here also just have different ideals and are up for conversation.
The regional differences in attitudes on this point were astonishing to me when I moved from the NYC metro area to southern IN, decades ago. It was hard for me to put my finger on it for more than a few years, because I was so blindsided by it. Personally, I can't comprehend or relate to anyone who doesn't think for themselves. Any 4 year old (or younger) can and should be taught to do so, and that's an important part of education. Yet in the midwest many women still pretend to be dumb because they think it will make them more attractive. And the scary part is they may be right, when it comes to the majority.
Viability outside the womb is likely the only cutoff that leftists may agree to. The average is 26 weeks for viability outside of the womb. However, the earliest premature birth was actually 21 weeks.
As medicine improves, we are likely to see that number go down.
21 weeks is still pretty damn far along and 6 weeks would never get through congress because a not so small number of women are not even aware that they are pregnant until ~6 weeks.
6 week cutoff IMO (and I'm no fan of abortion at all), would never get passed. 12 weeks would likely be the earliest achievable cutoff allowed.
"Liberals" will never consider a reasoning which originates from religious values, or doctrine. Medically, they are still WAY THE FUCK over the line by even thinking 9 months is okay (E.g. the fucking psychotic governor of Virginia), but as of now, we may be able to get to 21 or 20 week cutoff.
Interestingly, there is a lot of research (which is coming along quickly) regarding artificial wombs. Before we know it, women will likely be to get have an "extraction" instead of an abortion. Where the fetus can be moved into an artificial womb.
As our medicine improves, so does the possible of making abortions a thing of the past. That technology becoming fully developed, and widely available, is the only real chance of effectively putting an end to abortion.
Is an astronaut not viable without a space suit?
Of course not.
Though a bit of a non sequitur, I do understand your point. This doesn’t need to devolve into a discussion of purity tests though.
My point is this; in terms of realistic expectations, this is what we can expect to get from legislation, per our current routes of affecting change.
Take roe v wade for instance. If we are able to overturn roe v wade, abortions won’t become illegal in the US. Decisions of legality just get going passed down to the state level.
Im talking about this in terms of practicality and what we can reliably expect. If we want to see change, we can’t be willfully ignorant of this fact.
Tbh I’ll say I don’t think Plan B should illegal. Also, though I’ve gone back and forth on this a lot, I don’t think 1st term abortions should be illegal either.
Currently, I loathe how abortions are seen as birth control now on the left. And it’s clearly being fetishized by the more extreme progressives too.
If we hope to change any of this shit though, the argument against abortions has to start from a stance that is articulated outside of religious context.
Liberals will never accept any argument or viewpoint we make if it based around Christianity or religious texts, in general. It means fuck all nothing to them.
Abortions past the age of viability IMO, and from a medical standpoint, is an ignorant and immoral thing to support. You are effectively killing a baby but calling it an abortion because the baby is inside, instead of outside the womb.
There are other arguments for earlier restrictions, but they are not nearly as strong.
Sorry for the long winded essay-length response but hopefully it clears up what I mean. My point obviously is not to change anyone’s mind that abortion is okay at any stage. It’s to show that there is a pretty damn good chance that we can prevent late-term and potentially mid-term abortions in the US. Idk, that’s just a way I think we could convince people to a more pro-life view.