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OnlyAmerica 4 points ago +6 / -2

This is a Sola Scriptura argument. You can't trash the Protestants while clinging to the same thing yourself. If the the rock argument was really true to Christ's teaching, the Sees of Constantinople and Antioch and others would still have been in communion with Rome.

Edit: plus St. Peter also founded the See of Antioch. What makes Rome the keeper of the key and not Antioch? Just because Rome was the larger metropolis? That's a politically charged and thus scummy argument.

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Nastyfication 7 points ago +8 / -1

Peter established the Church in Antioch, but when he left the primacy left with him.

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deleted 2 points ago +3 / -1
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OnlyAmerica 3 points ago +3 / -0

The valid central authority is Christ himself.

Throughout history, the repeated attempts to centralize power into the hands of one human figurehead has always produced catastrophic consequences.

To err is human, and leaving all eggs in on basket is not prudent. God told us to love our neighbors, he never told us to trust them.

One more thing: why did Rome crowned Charlemagne Holy Roman Emperor when it had not been part of the Roman Empire for 400 years after falling to barbarian raids?

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deleted -1 points ago +1 / -2
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OnlyAmerica 2 points ago +2 / -0

If Christ flipped the table on the priestly class of the old Hebrews and picked up a fisherman and other social outcasts to be his apostles, he couldn't possibly have meant his church to be led by another previledged priestly class who are anything but social outcasts.

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Starfish 2 points ago +2 / -0

The rock is not the man and the petra/petros thing is ignorant. Jesus says that his divine nature was revealed to Simon by God himself and then says "you are Rock and on this rock I will build my Church". The rock is God's revelation to man, particularly in the Holy Spirit. The rock is hearing the word of God rather than going with the flow of the world.

Then, Simon is called Rock from that point on. Not Peter, the greek word but Kephas, the Aramaic word. He holds an office of listening for God's word. Even though popes have been imperfect or even evil, their job remains to listen for the voice of God and tell us what it says.

Immediately afterward, Simon says something stupid "God forbid Lord, no such thing will ever happen to you" and Jesus calls him Satan, proving that thr man whose job is to listen and speak the will of God also sometimes is a false prophet speaking his own will. He must carefully discern whether he is hearing the will of God or his own.

What use is it to have such a person in the Church if they sometimes evil and even the good ones are sometimes wrong? Because God uses the man to communicate his will. When God chooses to speak through the Rock he does so. This provides a certain unity to the Church which is so sadly lacking in non-Catholic communities and Churches. Better to have an imperfect pope than no pope at all.

What about infallibility? When the man speaks as himself he is not infallible. When he speaks as the Rock, who has listened to God and then spoken, he is infallible. How do we know when he is speaking his own mind and not officially? This requires discernment.

In this case he tweeted: We need to dismantle the perverse logic that links personal and national security to the possession of weaponry. This logic serves only to increase the profits of the arms industry, while fostering a climate of distrust and fear between persons and peoples.

Sounds right to me. The literal meaning of his words is "We need to logically disprove that weapons cause safety." And of course he is right. Gun control people do need to logically disprove it before I stop believing it.

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OnlyAmerica 0 points ago +1 / -1

Does it make sense that a house, any houses or buildings, is built on a single piece of rock?

When you talk to one of your kids, do the rest suddenly stop being your kids?

No, that wouldn't make any sense. When you talk to a child among your children, your attention is on him or her. That doesn't mean the rest cease to be your children.

I'm still unsure as to why there is even a need for a central human authority "to listen to God's voice" when it's been Biblical that the people don't even listen to the prophets each time they are sent. A humanly vessel is proven time and time again to be inadequate. Like you said, what is the point of a vicar when it is God's decision when and where He shall reveal His will? Remember, it was St. Paul who originally persecuted Christians and then converted out of the blue. St. Paul didn't need a vicar to hear the will of God.

Everything in Scriptures points to a trend of decentralization after Christ's sacrifice. The Gospels are documented into 4 books of 4 different points of witness and Acts are letters of several apostles, all of whom were common folks, none rabbis or priests originally.

Even in one of Christ's parables, the dishonest employee showed himself prudent in God's eyes when he found out he lost favor with his master. He separated his eggs to multiple baskets as he relieved the debts of different people.

If Christ had really wanted one of his successors "to hold all the keys", why would he even have called the others? Why would God even send His Son when the priestly nation Israel could have been enough to lead the nations?

One more thing: why did Christ made a point about the pointlessness of a priest who was vain in his obsession with keeping the laws while praising the humbled tax collector who prayed in secret?

If God wanted a vicar why the need at all to show that any secret prayers would be heard by Him?

The truth is one basket is never enough, no matter how hard you wish it to be so.

And isn't it a waste of time to prove that weapons are useful and dangerous? Did God ever have to prove to humans that a sword is a sword, and how to use it to destroy and/or to protect, like we are a bunch of robots? Didn't God simply install his automaton with flaming swords at the gate of Eden to guard it?

Do the common people need to know mathematically why 1 + 1 = 2? No, that would be a waste of time.

"Weapons cause safety" isn't even an argument. It's self evident.

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DoYouBelieveInMAGA 2 points ago +3 / -1

All I know is I'm going Lutheran because Luther was absolutely based.

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tallon 3 points ago +3 / -0

Too bad all the Lutheran churches I see are filled with SJW signs and black lives matter banners. Also female priests who talk about black transgender lives mattering and systemic racism.

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DoYouBelieveInMAGA 1 point ago +1 / -0

Agggghhh is that true? I'm in search of a based religion.

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capefog 1 point ago +1 / -0

Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and Evangelical Lutheran Church in America are both very conservative.

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tallon 0 points ago +1 / -1

Personally I’m seeing the Orthodox Church being based af.

Ultimately though you should go by the church you find, if you find a good based Lutheran community just stick with them!