Communism fails for the same reason all Utopian schemes fail.
They all would require absolute power to implement, which inevitably leads to theft, murder and suffering, which, of course means that they are no utopia at all.
Nor do they mimic human nature, something pretty critical when designing an economic and political system.
Any system that precludes human nature in its calculus is doomed to fail.
The word is "youth". The fact that anyone under 25 is open-minded at all is actually commendable. Debating Kropotkin is not the same as burning buildings and shooting at cops even though they both call themselves communist
Well, kudos to you for not hating anyone. We don’t hate you either, we just think what you are proposing is the stupidest idea ever, proven impossible to apply even if nice in theory.
Honestly my only question is how you can ignore the glaring history that makes the theory completely unworkable
Capitalism has been great for countless millions in the world, America in particular. People have achieved prosperous lives full of amazing experiences at a level never experienced before due to our capitalist system. Just because you didn't have the right upbringing to breed you for success and fill you with gratitude for your blessings, just because you can't figure out your niche here, doesn't mean it's a bad system. It just means you either haven't been able or haven't chosen to succeed in it.
Capitalism isn’t perfect. But it hasn’t killed everyone living under it, whereas communism has gotten pretty damn close. Even China had to abandon it in order to get people from out of poverty. It’s just a failed idea, and demonstrably so.
Ugh, it's just too comfortable living here. I wish someone would make me pick rocks by hand for eternity, or we could make the world's longest bread line!
Ashctually real communism hasn't been tried before!
Only 100 million dead practicing for the 'real thing'
Shocking. A poor American kid who wants communism because he can't provide for himself in the wealthiest nation the world has ever seen because capitalism requires talent and effort. .
Oh come on. Plenty of people weren't born with wealthy parents and still managed a working class, middle class, or even upper middle class lifestyle. Stop making excuses and stop indulging in escapism and do something meaningful with your life. Your communist fantasies are just escapism. You use it as an out to blame all your failures on "the system" or "the rich people". You have no idea how it was in previous decades. You sit and watch TV and get a false perspective, thinking you should have a house by age 25, blah blah blah. In the past people scrimped and saved for years to buy their first house. You say you're poor but I bet you pay for a cell phone and internet. in the 1960s or 1970s, nobody had these things, nobody had half of what you take for granted today.
You can work anywhere, McDonalds, Waffle House, a bar and save enough money to go there. You don't really want to go there. You know it's much easier for you in America and that's why you stay. You're a "communist" only because you have the luxury of fantasizing about how it would be in a communist society while living with all the freedom and benefits of a Western Capitalist nation. Face it, communism is a fantasy, a utopian ideal that can't ever work because it doesn't in any way account for human nature and also because it just isn't a great way for people to live. It actually always becomes an intensification of the wealth gap, where pretty much EVERYBODY is poor except the politicians, their friends and family (who tend to raid the treasury of all your tax money and spend it on themselves), and whichever celebrity or sports star that gets some extra perks, such as a two bedroom apartment instead of a one room studio for acting as an ambassador for the regime.
Yeah, there are dozens of jobs that about anybody can get in most cities and I know this because I've done a lot of them. I'm not an idealist, I'm probably thirty or forty years older than you and I've walked the walk and I'm also related to people who went through the Great Depression, whereas you live in a fantasyland that's comfortable for you because you can't deal with the fact that life is hard and nobody is guaranteed a free lunch, including you. Life is HARD. It's hard for the birds, it's hard for the squirrels, it's hard for the bears, and it's hard for humans. The only ones complaining about it and refusing to deal with it are the spoiled humans. You don't see birds hating the world because nobody is giving them free bird seed every day.
True, but yet you ideology claims to be socially progressive, yet gays and lesbians were still oppressed? Similarly, how do you think of the decision to move many races, (I;e, Tatars) around in the Soviet Union?
Yeah, a long time ago there was slavery. It sucks but all we can do is move forward. So why doesn't the commie promoting Left ever want to move forward and instead pretends like it's still 1789 year after year?
Dude, I went to college in the 70s. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a Commie on college campuses back then. I interacted with and debated Commies (including some of my TAs) quite frequently. It was like an intramural sport in those days. I have known my share of them over the ensuing decades. I have zero respect for Communists and especially for people who espouse Communism who have never lived in a Communist country.
When you say you are an actual communist: do you follow closely to the actual communist manifesto written by Karl Marx or some other form of it written by someone else?
Sweetpea, I'm a native Northern Californian, significantly older than you, and was raised very left liberal. Let's just say I have family with direct knowledge from key points in time and important groups and places to "the cause".
The language is fluid, the labels changed constantly, and the game of moving the goalposts frequent- the answer yesterday to the question will he different next week, or to a different person today. But I suspect you don't know anything about that high level manipulation and sophism.
I know exactly who the major players, agendas, programming, methods, and recruits are in AF BB BAMN and all the subs.
And I know when they hit critical mass on fully indoctorinated cultural marxist theory drones and became a useful tool to big globalist forces.
You... you have a few mentors who are leading you down the garden path. Nice "smart" passionate, "idealistic" peeps that took an interest in 'educationg you'.
But it is all very carefully curated indoctorination techniques, not intellectual open debate and a friendly come and go group they tell you it is. It isn't a good place to go towards. It won't be what you think. And the first time you have an even mild dissent or a whiff of not total commitment is sensed after they have you undercdirect control you will understand what I am warning you about. But it will be far too late then to safely disentangle.
Portland is a shitshow, and that's with a protective authorities bubble. Same wit Seattle et al. All thry are doing is destroying what positive impressions normie Americans had of leftists of any stripe. BLM with Antifa and BB allies nationwide gave managed to utterly destroy any sympathy or allyship- don't buy the hype, they fucking cratered their rep and reasons to support in the flames.
This entire thing was a Hail Mary wild pass from the end zone play by the globalist powers that call the shots; they jumped too fast, too far, too loudly and widely.
Now they can't hide the destruction and violence and intimidation methods from the closest thing they had to supporters in average America: liberal urban residents. The frogs woke up en masse that it wasn't a hottub party, and have been leaping out thousands at a time since the beginning of June.
The "right" is welcoming them with open arms and a comforting pat- because more than a few were in the same spot in 2015 or so until events and sudden awareness woke them up.
But I bet you're being fed a narrative exactly the opposite, aren't you?
Break the conditioning. Step away. Cut contact. Then do some independent digging on more diverse authors and subjects if going out into the world is too hard. Even ghosting here and reading a bunch of links, reading the cogent commentors, and watching plenty of live videos would be a healthy exposure for your education in normal non leftist America.
Why do you continue to live in a capitalist country? You'd think someone with your politics would immigrate to at least a Democratic Socialist country. Or is it your plan to change the country from within? Which would make you an enemy of the constitution and punishable by short drop from a long limb.
no you didn't. Get on a boat and go there just like Cubans do when they flee Cuba. God, you are full of excuses about why you can't do anything. We Americans call people like you losers.
Cubans come here on makeshift rafts with little to no money to escape communism. Why can't you do the same to escape our system? Or you could just borrow the raft from refugees.
Would it not be easier to move to a communist country and live in “happiness”, then try to fundamentally change America, fail, and probably get killed for your efforts?
Is that part of your appeal to communism, that you don’t have capital in America and might have a better life under a system, somewhere else, that devalues currency to almost uselessness?
If you had the funding to leave, which communist country tops your preferred destination?
Are you worried it’s open season on Antifa now that they will been designated a terrorist organization via “Platinum Plan”? Some 17 year old boy took out three of your men. He wasn’t even trained or ex military like many of us are. It’s estimated some %80 of citizens have guns. Roughly 270 million guns total. Most gun owners average 5 guns per person. Communism could never overthrow that sheer volume in America. Then what?
Is it weird being a communist, doing the street level anarchy and crime for the DNC, who seem to just be using you? I mean let’s get real, the DNC leadership uses capitalism to enrich themselves and buy mansions. They’re not going to give that up.
Does it feel weird as a communist being bankrolled by a globalist Hungarian Nazi Jew in Soros? Bash the fash except when they’re paying you? Is that not communism, but capitalism? An empty vessel for hire?
Does it concern you that your communist message and vision gets diluted when others who claim to share your same values fail to realize Soros himself is a fascist? Then take money from him?
I guess that’s one of the glaring issues that doesn’t make sense to me about the ideology. If you (they) feel so strongly about communism, why accept money (capitalism) from a fascist (Soros)? It kinda seems like a massive contradiction to the cornerstones of the movement.
I don't think you are in the proper forum. But why do you think societies of 100,000,000+ people are compatible with communism? Even china, a communist country with single party totalitarian control had to open capitalist markets to create wealth and prosperity.
100 million people ( roughly 98 million I believe) were killed under communist regimes and yet you openly identify as a communist. Why are you so proud of that? Their worse than the klan, black panthers,antifa and all other cults combined. How can you support a system that demands total control of it's citizenry? Criticize a dictator and you would disappear.
Washington Post: Mao's great leap forward resulted In the death of an estimated 45 MILLION People between the years of 1958 -1962. That's four fucking years. That's sounds awesome! Let's implement this, right?
Wall Street journal: around the time of 1920 (1918?) Around 20 million people died under the Soviet regime. Wow! What an awesome system that is! We need some of that here!
I don't have to continue. I believe you are a young person who either wants to be one in the party of eternal power ( at least until normal people are fed up with that shit and start fucking the commies up ). Or you didn't learn much in history class. Or maybe they didn't teach you about that poisonous shit stain of a "political system". Either way you should really take a long hard look at what your supporting. No system is perfect but communism is a fucking nightmare and the system of genocide and total control. And that's not even ALL the commies that committed genocide on their own people. Stalin/pol pot/hitler FUCK THAT
I doubt I'll get an answer or reply on this. No way somebody can defend that.
There's LITERALLY evidence all over the Internet. I LITERALLY just looked at those liberal rags ( who love commies now ) and gave you right at 60 million deaths due to communist regimes. You just dismissed my argument with " that's nonsense" and yet offer no statistical rebuttal with facts as I did above. There's first hand accounts. Diary's,Documentaries and whole books dedicated to talking about the communist death toll. Wtf dude.
60 MILLION People... With just 2 dictators. "BuT cApItAlIsM iS bAd". The worst you can say about capitalism is it requires hard work, often a hard and long journey but ultimately pays off if you put the work in. My brother dropped out of HS, got a dwi and didn't have a job for nearly 10 years! He pulled his self up and got a job and just bought a house this year. All it takes is the want to do better for yourself. Communism relies on taking from others and making everyone equally miserable, except the people in power, who never go hungry or live in filth.
...ok, I don't think you can read or just don't want to admit that communism is a plague on this world. There is well documented death tolls from communist regimes. Whether you will use your head to do actual research Into it or not is up to you, I did and listed the related articles sources for you, and not even a conservative source who would argue that the toll is higher than 100 million. So to say " there is no evidence" is just ignorant. There are hundreds if not thousands of books and articles, documentaries and first hand accounts man on the death cult. I can't force you to watch and read them.
"There's no such thing as evidence of a negative". What? Evidence is evidence man. It speaks for itself. You put it out there and research it. Facts are facts and the fact is that communism has killed around 100 million people and it has been well documented.
YOUR clearly going to believe what you do for some reason. I don't know why you support mass murdering, genocidal political ideologies and don't care honestly. The facts are on my side and you just choose to bury your head in the sand. You couldn't even list a single source since our convo started other than " that's false". There's photos of mass graves and articles from people who escaped from those hell holes and documentaries and books and diaries but nope, they are wrong! They only experienced it first hand, what do they know?
"The 100 million number is simply false". Ok, so it was ONLY 98 million you guys! See, it's not so bad!
It's almost 4 a.m here so I'mma check out now cause I got shit to do tomorrow. But by all means, don't listen to me, look it up for yourself. Do the research.
P.s. your bei g down voted. Not by me. I don't give a shit about up/down votes.
You're not fighting anything but your own opportunities. Literally making excuses for being a loser. It's everyone else's fault, right? Because you're smarter than thousands of successful millionaires who came from the same streets as you and built successful lives for their families. You're a sad little boy.
The problem there is that in order to accomplish that goal, everyone needs to be brought down to the level of the lowest common denominator, the weakest link. That ultimately leads to collective mediocrity, stagnation due to lack of ability to generate real innovation, and ultimately systemic failure, as has been historically demonstrated in the USSR, Cuba, and now Venezuela. These societies do not produce true innovators. Instead they must steal their advancements from capitalist countries. Look at the CCP and how much stolen American innovation is implemented into their infrastructures. The USSR did the same thing. Humans need challenges in order to become exceptional, to drive innovation and real progress. Society is made better because of it. Are there downsides? Sure, but currently capitalism, while clearly and deeply flawed, is the only system that enables the individual to be a driver of progress, by celebrating and inspiring individual success and achievement, and presenting no true barrier that prevents others from doing the same, because ultimately it's down to how much time, effort and ability one wants to focus on achieving one's goals and dreams. How is that worse than being a mediocre mindless drone in a totalitarian ant colony? And ironically most of the "systemic issues" plaguing the USA that the left is crying about right now are largely due to the creeping infiltration of communist methodologies that over the last century have been insinuated into the fabric of our bureaucracies and our culture.
What about people living under communism that disagree with it and want to talk about the benefits of capitalism. Or if they convince a bunch of people, like doctors and such, to leave that country? Do they get free speech and freedom to do what they want?
100 pages of flight logs came out this week. It’s bad for a lot of Hollywood, DNC, and Europe, but I didn’t see Trump to the Island on there. Have you seen the latest drop?
You need to engage with a broader spectrum of America- there is drastically more than just a few "sides" of various American values systems.
And that's all it really is for normal people outside of a tiny cadre with power.
Everyone else not authoritarian or fascist by nature has no desire to tell others how to live or what their values have to be, and absolutely do not use violence or intimidation against those different.... as long as they stay out of their business, the favor is returned.
The problem with "communists" in all flavors including your Antifa version is you are naturally manifesting fascist behavior and authoritarian agendas as for the greater good and the means justify the ends and you know better/are more virtuous- it comes with the territory. And you really REALLY need to read up on Russian full history to begin to grasp the truth you are avoiding by living inside one theoretical utopian vision.
This is the delusional left- from left liberals to progressives to greens to socialists to communists:
The all hold a starry eye broad brush view of How Things Will Get Done that is draconian and has nothing to do with human nature or holds even a touch of personal freedom... and they are completely oblivious to all that.
The powerful stripping the citizenry of rights as a means to control. Implementing systems to successfully garnish total obedience through oppression and social scores. Often disarming the population under the guise of “you don’t need that, we will protect you” only to have the guns turned on the citizens shortly after giving them up.
I never imagined communism as what I perceived to be like living in a hippy colony. The unkempt smoked weed all day, sitting in a drum circle, half naked, malnourished, didn’t bathe, knitting their own clothes out of hemp, and had a community garden because...that’s what hippies do.
"Communist" means revolutionary in today's jargon. If you have some complicated system for society...so does everyone. Nationalize things that are monopolies, incentivize institutions that promote the general welfare, and leave the majority of business free to operate within that framework as long as there are checks on corporate control and capital consolidation. Yay we all agree. But my advice is to be weary of some Democrats who are using extreme violence and radical race division to take over...we'll stop once we're in control they say lol, sorry I've read history somewhat
Would you say that you are a full-on communist or that you are someone that is skeptical about capitalism that doesn't necessarily have a strong convictions either way?
Would others (normal people) consider your life a success by capitalist societal standards? (Decent job/own a home/family/etc) (dont need to hit all the marks)
Given the sample size, examples both historical and current, what is it about communism that enables you to overlook the failure and suffering associated with Communism? Do you simply pretend the negatives dont exist or is there something that is alluring about communism that you can live with the negatives?
Would you agree/disagree with the statement that capitalism, while flawed, is the best economic system created to date?
Would you agree / disagree with the statement that capitalism has lifted the most people out of poverty in human history?
In a capitalist society you are free to get together with a group of like-minded people, buy your own land and live out your specific communist ideals in peace. Are you aware that in a communist Society, that it is an impossibility for others to do the inverse? Is that okay?
What is the measure or bar that needs to be reached in order to convince you that communism is not a feasible way to run a society long-term? Is communism the solution to you or is it just due to a lack of choices?
With honest introspection, if you could assign a percentage, how much of your opinion is shaped by your personal successes/failures.
2.) Why do you see the world as it could be rather than what it is
3.) how would you handle the chaos in the transition from Capitalism to Communism in the US
4.) We have brought more people out of poverty and improved the lives of more people than any other civilization in history through capitalism, why is Communism better?
5.) do you really have the capacity to care about 7 billion people
6.) Do you value the individual over the collective
7.) Have you contributed anything worthwhile to your local community that doesn’t involve activism
8.) Are you taking screenshots and if so where will you post them
9.) what individual do you feel has done the most with his life through all of human history, and who do you feel has done the most damage to the world throughout history
10.) What makes you happy?
11.) do you understand what it means to believe in a higher power?
12.) what would you be willing to die for? What would you be willing to sacrifice what you’d die for, for?
I’m on a tablet so formatting isn’t going to happen, but I’ll do breaks or something.
If you haven’t read The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, I highly suggest you do if you want to understand Capitalism, just as I would probably be asked to read the Communist Manifesto to understand Communism.
Striving to improve in a situation that won’t entertain your ideals seems futile to me.
If you don’t see transitioning to communism ever happening or a long ways off, why not try to improve the capitalist society you live in today. We have social welfare programs for a reason, but they need improvement.
I ask about you caring about 7 billion people because while the idea of being able to is something most people would think they could do, Reading through the field of psychology suggests otherwise.
Collectivism is something I see as a cult who would be willing to sacrifice people for a greater good, rather than individuals seeing the benefit of mutual cooperation.
I suppose if you can’t detach the activitist part from it, feeding people can’t be criticized.
There was no right answer, just curious as to how you would answer.
Another, I just wanted to see how you would answer, I like people as well.
When I ask about a higher power, I have to ask why you do not believe. I’m not asking why you don’t believe in Santa clause, but why when some of the brightest minds did, you wouldn’t come to the same conclusion that one does exist in some form or another, be it empirical or conceptual.
When parents through history have been willing to sacrifice their children in war that goes beyond what you’d be willing to die for, so nothing like that?
Also you know this place isn’t somewhere to find civil discourse. You just kinda have to understand what this community is about.
If you haven’t read anything from Edward bernays or read Joseph goebbels tenets I suggest you do.
I want to leave you with a reading list that doesn’t sway any which way politically, just books to understand the world around you. I’ve been homeless, Ive saved lives, I’ve taken lives and I’ve worked to get us to mars. I’ve traveled the world not as a tourist but lived in many different societies. I’m saying that as it might give you some incentive to pick these books or audiobooks up.
Again, The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
Mans search for meaning by Viktor Frankl
The Gulag Archipelago By Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn
Memories, Dreams, Reflections By Carl Jung
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer
The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi
The Prince By Niccolò Machiavelli
Meditations By Marcus Aurelius
Republic by Plato
Propaganda by Edward Bernays
If you just would rather stick to podcasts, listen to dan Carlin’s hardcore history.
This is humanity and the world you live in. If you don’t understand this you live in the dark and your dreams will always be just that, dreams. You’re young, passionate and just want what’s best for the world. Intellect is nothing without wisdom.
Same. I have a feeling your views will change as you grow older, and I believe in a world where people can have opposing views yet still talk to each other. When I was in high school socialism sounded great, I hated the military and was an edgy atheist. Here I am now, a veteran, I believe in a higher power and understand why our capitalist society is the better options despite its flaws. Again, the books aren’t meant to sway you away from socialism, just to give you wisdom of the world I wish someone would have given me in my early 20’s.
Comparing small closely related groups with a modern nation is preposterous.
Nor were these societies diverse. They were largely homogeneous and or closely related. They also had low capital requirements, since they weren't conducting research, inventing technology, building centers of learning, etc. etc.
Singing Kumbaya around a campfire in a primitive hunter/gatherer/light agriculture society is one thing. Building a modern nation is quite different.
Tweezing out a few sparse examples of primitive people or other small societies behavior (which is open to interpretation and bias of the observer), and then extrapolating that it must be the default setting for all humans is nuts, when the overwhelming evidence of recorded history points to different conclusion.
You are POOR most likely because of your choices. You can choose to work at jobs that will lift you out of poverty. You can choose to get different types of training that will qualify you for jobs that will lift you out of poverty. So, why aren't you doing it? Why are you choosing to be poor? Seriously, anybody can get a job at Amazon and they pay 13-16 dollars and hour. If you think that is being "poor", you seriously need to learn more about what real poverty is. If you have internet and food and some type of shelter and a cell phone, YOU ARE NOT POOR. My grandmother didn't have indoor plumbing. She gave us kids baths in a wash tub warmed up with a teakettle on a wood burning stove. She had to sing her kids to sleep because they cried from the pain in their stomachs from not having enough food. You are not in that situation. You just think you're poor.
You sound like my history teacher. He would say what’s in the book then side note how much of the atrocities are left out. And that we are r learning revisionist history instead of truth
Would you like to see my helicopter?
^^^^
I saw what Communism did up close and personal in the 80's while visiting the USSR.
You are either young, a fool, evil, or all three. It is absolute poison.
The most murderous ideology ever conceived.
Believe me, it was plenty "real".
Communism fails for the same reason all Utopian schemes fail.
They all would require absolute power to implement, which inevitably leads to theft, murder and suffering, which, of course means that they are no utopia at all.
Nor do they mimic human nature, something pretty critical when designing an economic and political system.
Any system that precludes human nature in its calculus is doomed to fail.
Like the pink unicorn, it doesn't exist.
Stalin killed, imprisoned and starved millions.
You are a complete idiot, and live in a fantasy land.
Churchill did not starve millions or imprison millions for political reasons. That is nonsense.
That old canard has been debunked over and over, yet it still has legs.
The war caused all kinds of problems, shortages, etc.
Yeah I’m sure all those Kulaks were so happy to be lifted out of poverty.
As is typical, a government big enough to provide for you like livestock, can slaughter you like livestock, and they do.
I suppose you will be singing the praises of Pol Pot next.
I think the Ukrainians would argue the early stages weren't so hot either.
I guess it's easier too lift up countless people out of poverty when you can use the resources left over from the countless people you just buried.
But eventually, they always run out of other people's resources, both the living and the dead.
The word is "youth". The fact that anyone under 25 is open-minded at all is actually commendable. Debating Kropotkin is not the same as burning buildings and shooting at cops even though they both call themselves communist
No symptoms necessary. You've proven that your an idiot.
Good, please do not procreate
incels can't procreate
The boogeyman has spoken
Ok I Kekd at that one not gonna lie.
Well, kudos to you for not hating anyone. We don’t hate you either, we just think what you are proposing is the stupidest idea ever, proven impossible to apply even if nice in theory.
Honestly my only question is how you can ignore the glaring history that makes the theory completely unworkable
This is basically my question as well.
Yes, "complete disaster," I say on my magic calculator phone that connects me to the sum of human knowledge
Capitalism has been great for countless millions in the world, America in particular. People have achieved prosperous lives full of amazing experiences at a level never experienced before due to our capitalist system. Just because you didn't have the right upbringing to breed you for success and fill you with gratitude for your blessings, just because you can't figure out your niche here, doesn't mean it's a bad system. It just means you either haven't been able or haven't chosen to succeed in it.
Capitalism isn’t perfect. But it hasn’t killed everyone living under it, whereas communism has gotten pretty damn close. Even China had to abandon it in order to get people from out of poverty. It’s just a failed idea, and demonstrably so.
Didn’t Marc say there were benefits to feudalism?
These classroom Communists can only exist through brainwashing and a life of privilege living in a capitalist first world country.
You aren't an actual communist, you are merely a disposable tool to the real communist tyrants trying to change this world.
Of course they haven't, they're still alive.
Ugh, it's just too comfortable living here. I wish someone would make me pick rocks by hand for eternity, or we could make the world's longest bread line! Ashctually real communism hasn't been tried before!
Only 100 million dead practicing for the 'real thing'
Why don’t you try out Cuba?
Shocking. A poor American kid who wants communism because he can't provide for himself in the wealthiest nation the world has ever seen because capitalism requires talent and effort. .
Your stupidity is boundless.
Oh come on. Plenty of people weren't born with wealthy parents and still managed a working class, middle class, or even upper middle class lifestyle. Stop making excuses and stop indulging in escapism and do something meaningful with your life. Your communist fantasies are just escapism. You use it as an out to blame all your failures on "the system" or "the rich people". You have no idea how it was in previous decades. You sit and watch TV and get a false perspective, thinking you should have a house by age 25, blah blah blah. In the past people scrimped and saved for years to buy their first house. You say you're poor but I bet you pay for a cell phone and internet. in the 1960s or 1970s, nobody had these things, nobody had half of what you take for granted today.
You can work anywhere, McDonalds, Waffle House, a bar and save enough money to go there. You don't really want to go there. You know it's much easier for you in America and that's why you stay. You're a "communist" only because you have the luxury of fantasizing about how it would be in a communist society while living with all the freedom and benefits of a Western Capitalist nation. Face it, communism is a fantasy, a utopian ideal that can't ever work because it doesn't in any way account for human nature and also because it just isn't a great way for people to live. It actually always becomes an intensification of the wealth gap, where pretty much EVERYBODY is poor except the politicians, their friends and family (who tend to raid the treasury of all your tax money and spend it on themselves), and whichever celebrity or sports star that gets some extra perks, such as a two bedroom apartment instead of a one room studio for acting as an ambassador for the regime.
Yeah, there are dozens of jobs that about anybody can get in most cities and I know this because I've done a lot of them. I'm not an idealist, I'm probably thirty or forty years older than you and I've walked the walk and I'm also related to people who went through the Great Depression, whereas you live in a fantasyland that's comfortable for you because you can't deal with the fact that life is hard and nobody is guaranteed a free lunch, including you. Life is HARD. It's hard for the birds, it's hard for the squirrels, it's hard for the bears, and it's hard for humans. The only ones complaining about it and refusing to deal with it are the spoiled humans. You don't see birds hating the world because nobody is giving them free bird seed every day.
You would be back in a week. Try getting a job if you need money, like everyone else.
What about CHAZ?
Are you wearing a soft padded helmet right now, and would you like to go for a helicopter ride with me?
Murder only is charged when a human dies.
Communists are property of the State, not people.
Y u ghey?
Retard. (Not really a question, but might as well say it.)
Okay I have a question: What makes you think I'd be interested in asking you a question?
Communists hate gays, traditionally.
True, but yet you ideology claims to be socially progressive, yet gays and lesbians were still oppressed? Similarly, how do you think of the decision to move many races, (I;e, Tatars) around in the Soviet Union?
Yeah, a long time ago there was slavery. It sucks but all we can do is move forward. So why doesn't the commie promoting Left ever want to move forward and instead pretends like it's still 1789 year after year?
You'd be wrong in that assumption.
Dude, I went to college in the 70s. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a Commie on college campuses back then. I interacted with and debated Commies (including some of my TAs) quite frequently. It was like an intramural sport in those days. I have known my share of them over the ensuing decades. I have zero respect for Communists and especially for people who espouse Communism who have never lived in a Communist country.
Nothing personal, mind you ...
Shame on you.
How do you feel about the fact that your ideology has been taken over by feminism?
When you say you are an actual communist: do you follow closely to the actual communist manifesto written by Karl Marx or some other form of it written by someone else?
I've read the original communist manifesto but I haven't read Kropotkin. In what ways does he differ from the original manifesto?
Ooooh, I get it now-
guys, he's Antifa, not a Marxist or communist.
Sweetpea, I'm a native Northern Californian, significantly older than you, and was raised very left liberal. Let's just say I have family with direct knowledge from key points in time and important groups and places to "the cause".
The language is fluid, the labels changed constantly, and the game of moving the goalposts frequent- the answer yesterday to the question will he different next week, or to a different person today. But I suspect you don't know anything about that high level manipulation and sophism.
I know exactly who the major players, agendas, programming, methods, and recruits are in AF BB BAMN and all the subs.
And I know when they hit critical mass on fully indoctorinated cultural marxist theory drones and became a useful tool to big globalist forces.
You... you have a few mentors who are leading you down the garden path. Nice "smart" passionate, "idealistic" peeps that took an interest in 'educationg you'.
But it is all very carefully curated indoctorination techniques, not intellectual open debate and a friendly come and go group they tell you it is. It isn't a good place to go towards. It won't be what you think. And the first time you have an even mild dissent or a whiff of not total commitment is sensed after they have you undercdirect control you will understand what I am warning you about. But it will be far too late then to safely disentangle.
Portland is a shitshow, and that's with a protective authorities bubble. Same wit Seattle et al. All thry are doing is destroying what positive impressions normie Americans had of leftists of any stripe. BLM with Antifa and BB allies nationwide gave managed to utterly destroy any sympathy or allyship- don't buy the hype, they fucking cratered their rep and reasons to support in the flames.
This entire thing was a Hail Mary wild pass from the end zone play by the globalist powers that call the shots; they jumped too fast, too far, too loudly and widely.
Now they can't hide the destruction and violence and intimidation methods from the closest thing they had to supporters in average America: liberal urban residents. The frogs woke up en masse that it wasn't a hottub party, and have been leaping out thousands at a time since the beginning of June.
The "right" is welcoming them with open arms and a comforting pat- because more than a few were in the same spot in 2015 or so until events and sudden awareness woke them up.
But I bet you're being fed a narrative exactly the opposite, aren't you?
Break the conditioning. Step away. Cut contact. Then do some independent digging on more diverse authors and subjects if going out into the world is too hard. Even ghosting here and reading a bunch of links, reading the cogent commentors, and watching plenty of live videos would be a healthy exposure for your education in normal non leftist America.
Why do you continue to live in a capitalist country? You'd think someone with your politics would immigrate to at least a Democratic Socialist country. Or is it your plan to change the country from within? Which would make you an enemy of the constitution and punishable by short drop from a long limb.
no you didn't. Get on a boat and go there just like Cubans do when they flee Cuba. God, you are full of excuses about why you can't do anything. We Americans call people like you losers.
Cubans come here on makeshift rafts with little to no money to escape communism. Why can't you do the same to escape our system? Or you could just borrow the raft from refugees.
You should just get some from someone richer than you
How ugly and disgusting is your neckbeard? Do you wear elastic waistband pants?
Would it not be easier to move to a communist country and live in “happiness”, then try to fundamentally change America, fail, and probably get killed for your efforts?
Yet, poor Cubans find their way to America all the time.
Is that part of your appeal to communism, that you don’t have capital in America and might have a better life under a system, somewhere else, that devalues currency to almost uselessness?
If you had the funding to leave, which communist country tops your preferred destination?
and, where's your gofundme so we can contribute to your plane ticket. 1 way to Cuba.
With all the harmless fantasies available today, why do you choose the one that requires max subjugation and murder?
Uhh...the 20th century would like a word.
Do you like Justin Bieber?
Were you born with brain damage or were you in some kind of accident? I'm not judging, I'm just curious.
What do you think about your Antifa buddies tearing up Portland?
Are you worried it’s open season on Antifa now that they will been designated a terrorist organization via “Platinum Plan”? Some 17 year old boy took out three of your men. He wasn’t even trained or ex military like many of us are. It’s estimated some %80 of citizens have guns. Roughly 270 million guns total. Most gun owners average 5 guns per person. Communism could never overthrow that sheer volume in America. Then what?
Is it weird being a communist, doing the street level anarchy and crime for the DNC, who seem to just be using you? I mean let’s get real, the DNC leadership uses capitalism to enrich themselves and buy mansions. They’re not going to give that up.
Does it feel weird as a communist being bankrolled by a globalist Hungarian Nazi Jew in Soros? Bash the fash except when they’re paying you? Is that not communism, but capitalism? An empty vessel for hire?
Does it concern you that your communist message and vision gets diluted when others who claim to share your same values fail to realize Soros himself is a fascist? Then take money from him?
I guess that’s one of the glaring issues that doesn’t make sense to me about the ideology. If you (they) feel so strongly about communism, why accept money (capitalism) from a fascist (Soros)? It kinda seems like a massive contradiction to the cornerstones of the movement.
It is your understanding that Antifa and BLM are not funded by Soros?
Can I get your thoughts on these Antifa who quit protesting when their checks didn’t clear?
https://m.facebook.com/groups/391376097690523/?view=permalink&id=996224473872346
You might want to backcheck that affilliation... JS
What do you think will happen when Antifa attacks/burns the the wrong person/property and someone actually fights back and kills a lot of them?
Could you go over your day to day life?
I don't think you are in the proper forum. But why do you think societies of 100,000,000+ people are compatible with communism? Even china, a communist country with single party totalitarian control had to open capitalist markets to create wealth and prosperity.
Late stage communism is capitalism
Bingo. Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty in just the past 30 years than any system in all of human history.
Yes. Communism is regression.
It's what you would do if you're starting a society. Not growing/advancing one.
Weird flex but ok.
100 million people ( roughly 98 million I believe) were killed under communist regimes and yet you openly identify as a communist. Why are you so proud of that? Their worse than the klan, black panthers,antifa and all other cults combined. How can you support a system that demands total control of it's citizenry? Criticize a dictator and you would disappear.
Washington Post: Mao's great leap forward resulted In the death of an estimated 45 MILLION People between the years of 1958 -1962. That's four fucking years. That's sounds awesome! Let's implement this, right?
Wall Street journal: around the time of 1920 (1918?) Around 20 million people died under the Soviet regime. Wow! What an awesome system that is! We need some of that here!
I don't have to continue. I believe you are a young person who either wants to be one in the party of eternal power ( at least until normal people are fed up with that shit and start fucking the commies up ). Or you didn't learn much in history class. Or maybe they didn't teach you about that poisonous shit stain of a "political system". Either way you should really take a long hard look at what your supporting. No system is perfect but communism is a fucking nightmare and the system of genocide and total control. And that's not even ALL the commies that committed genocide on their own people. Stalin/pol pot/hitler FUCK THAT
I doubt I'll get an answer or reply on this. No way somebody can defend that.
There's LITERALLY evidence all over the Internet. I LITERALLY just looked at those liberal rags ( who love commies now ) and gave you right at 60 million deaths due to communist regimes. You just dismissed my argument with " that's nonsense" and yet offer no statistical rebuttal with facts as I did above. There's first hand accounts. Diary's,Documentaries and whole books dedicated to talking about the communist death toll. Wtf dude.
60 MILLION People... With just 2 dictators. "BuT cApItAlIsM iS bAd". The worst you can say about capitalism is it requires hard work, often a hard and long journey but ultimately pays off if you put the work in. My brother dropped out of HS, got a dwi and didn't have a job for nearly 10 years! He pulled his self up and got a job and just bought a house this year. All it takes is the want to do better for yourself. Communism relies on taking from others and making everyone equally miserable, except the people in power, who never go hungry or live in filth.
...ok, I don't think you can read or just don't want to admit that communism is a plague on this world. There is well documented death tolls from communist regimes. Whether you will use your head to do actual research Into it or not is up to you, I did and listed the related articles sources for you, and not even a conservative source who would argue that the toll is higher than 100 million. So to say " there is no evidence" is just ignorant. There are hundreds if not thousands of books and articles, documentaries and first hand accounts man on the death cult. I can't force you to watch and read them.
"There's no such thing as evidence of a negative". What? Evidence is evidence man. It speaks for itself. You put it out there and research it. Facts are facts and the fact is that communism has killed around 100 million people and it has been well documented.
YOUR clearly going to believe what you do for some reason. I don't know why you support mass murdering, genocidal political ideologies and don't care honestly. The facts are on my side and you just choose to bury your head in the sand. You couldn't even list a single source since our convo started other than " that's false". There's photos of mass graves and articles from people who escaped from those hell holes and documentaries and books and diaries but nope, they are wrong! They only experienced it first hand, what do they know?
"The 100 million number is simply false". Ok, so it was ONLY 98 million you guys! See, it's not so bad!
It's almost 4 a.m here so I'mma check out now cause I got shit to do tomorrow. But by all means, don't listen to me, look it up for yourself. Do the research.
P.s. your bei g down voted. Not by me. I don't give a shit about up/down votes.
You haven't even read up on Russian history let alone the rest- you're just parroting a talking point some "mentor" fed you. And it's a lie.
I know.
Which would be preferable to you: slavery, or death?
If neither, what makes OP so hopeful that he/she/they will be part of the ruling class instead of making the choice between slavery and death?
I cannot imagine a more dismal response to life and living imaginable.
Some people just were not born to be free.
Yeah, that’s what I thought.
So, your a Cuck?
You're not fighting anything but your own opportunities. Literally making excuses for being a loser. It's everyone else's fault, right? Because you're smarter than thousands of successful millionaires who came from the same streets as you and built successful lives for their families. You're a sad little boy.
I don't think it means what you think it means
Communism is the antithesis of freedom for everyone
The problem there is that in order to accomplish that goal, everyone needs to be brought down to the level of the lowest common denominator, the weakest link. That ultimately leads to collective mediocrity, stagnation due to lack of ability to generate real innovation, and ultimately systemic failure, as has been historically demonstrated in the USSR, Cuba, and now Venezuela. These societies do not produce true innovators. Instead they must steal their advancements from capitalist countries. Look at the CCP and how much stolen American innovation is implemented into their infrastructures. The USSR did the same thing. Humans need challenges in order to become exceptional, to drive innovation and real progress. Society is made better because of it. Are there downsides? Sure, but currently capitalism, while clearly and deeply flawed, is the only system that enables the individual to be a driver of progress, by celebrating and inspiring individual success and achievement, and presenting no true barrier that prevents others from doing the same, because ultimately it's down to how much time, effort and ability one wants to focus on achieving one's goals and dreams. How is that worse than being a mediocre mindless drone in a totalitarian ant colony? And ironically most of the "systemic issues" plaguing the USA that the left is crying about right now are largely due to the creeping infiltration of communist methodologies that over the last century have been insinuated into the fabric of our bureaucracies and our culture.
What about people living under communism that disagree with it and want to talk about the benefits of capitalism. Or if they convince a bunch of people, like doctors and such, to leave that country? Do they get free speech and freedom to do what they want?
It's DAS Capital!
Jesus you don't even kbow proper book titles...
Alright, I have another one.
Do you wipe front to back, back to front, or not at all because you will use your monthly roll to make a stew with dirty commie water?
I'll set up a Gofundme campaign to get you a one way ticket to Venezuela. You'll love it there! Especially the cuisine.
I support this. Hey commie, your going to Venezuela.
Why does it seem like every other communist Antifa getting arrested in Portland has a pedophilia history?
Is communism and pedophilia newly synonymous? Are you a pedophile? For/against?
100 pages of flight logs came out this week. It’s bad for a lot of Hollywood, DNC, and Europe, but I didn’t see Trump to the Island on there. Have you seen the latest drop?
Are you going to vote? Is so, for whom?
How did you come to be a communist?
You need to engage with a broader spectrum of America- there is drastically more than just a few "sides" of various American values systems.
And that's all it really is for normal people outside of a tiny cadre with power.
Everyone else not authoritarian or fascist by nature has no desire to tell others how to live or what their values have to be, and absolutely do not use violence or intimidation against those different.... as long as they stay out of their business, the favor is returned.
The problem with "communists" in all flavors including your Antifa version is you are naturally manifesting fascist behavior and authoritarian agendas as for the greater good and the means justify the ends and you know better/are more virtuous- it comes with the territory. And you really REALLY need to read up on Russian full history to begin to grasp the truth you are avoiding by living inside one theoretical utopian vision.
You may not hate us but we hate you.
Die commie scum
You said you're 21 and don't have much money.
Do you work?
Or are you on gov assistance?
So you're living off of relative / friends?
Do you contribute around the residence in a communal fashion?
And are you still looking for work? Or did you give up after the last one fell through?
Holy shit
This is the delusional left- from left liberals to progressives to greens to socialists to communists:
The all hold a starry eye broad brush view of How Things Will Get Done that is draconian and has nothing to do with human nature or holds even a touch of personal freedom... and they are completely oblivious to all that.
So, if people were paid twice as much to be (for example) a janitor, you think people would still choose to be surgeons?
Are you confusing being a hippy with communism?
The powerful stripping the citizenry of rights as a means to control. Implementing systems to successfully garnish total obedience through oppression and social scores. Often disarming the population under the guise of “you don’t need that, we will protect you” only to have the guns turned on the citizens shortly after giving them up.
I never imagined communism as what I perceived to be like living in a hippy colony. The unkempt smoked weed all day, sitting in a drum circle, half naked, malnourished, didn’t bathe, knitting their own clothes out of hemp, and had a community garden because...that’s what hippies do.
But somehow, there is always still a ruling class at the top to enforce the system with vast amounts of wealth to keep everyone in line.
so you're saying that you're retarded... ?
"Communist" means revolutionary in today's jargon. If you have some complicated system for society...so does everyone. Nationalize things that are monopolies, incentivize institutions that promote the general welfare, and leave the majority of business free to operate within that framework as long as there are checks on corporate control and capital consolidation. Yay we all agree. But my advice is to be weary of some Democrats who are using extreme violence and radical race division to take over...we'll stop once we're in control they say lol, sorry I've read history somewhat
Questions:
Would you say that you are a full-on communist or that you are someone that is skeptical about capitalism that doesn't necessarily have a strong convictions either way?
Would others (normal people) consider your life a success by capitalist societal standards? (Decent job/own a home/family/etc) (dont need to hit all the marks)
Given the sample size, examples both historical and current, what is it about communism that enables you to overlook the failure and suffering associated with Communism? Do you simply pretend the negatives dont exist or is there something that is alluring about communism that you can live with the negatives?
Would you agree/disagree with the statement that capitalism, while flawed, is the best economic system created to date?
Would you agree / disagree with the statement that capitalism has lifted the most people out of poverty in human history?
In a capitalist society you are free to get together with a group of like-minded people, buy your own land and live out your specific communist ideals in peace. Are you aware that in a communist Society, that it is an impossibility for others to do the inverse? Is that okay?
What is the measure or bar that needs to be reached in order to convince you that communism is not a feasible way to run a society long-term? Is communism the solution to you or is it just due to a lack of choices?
With honest introspection, if you could assign a percentage, how much of your opinion is shaped by your personal successes/failures.
Do you believe in globalism?
1.) Have you ever read wealth of nations
2.) Why do you see the world as it could be rather than what it is
3.) how would you handle the chaos in the transition from Capitalism to Communism in the US
4.) We have brought more people out of poverty and improved the lives of more people than any other civilization in history through capitalism, why is Communism better?
5.) do you really have the capacity to care about 7 billion people
6.) Do you value the individual over the collective
7.) Have you contributed anything worthwhile to your local community that doesn’t involve activism
8.) Are you taking screenshots and if so where will you post them
9.) what individual do you feel has done the most with his life through all of human history, and who do you feel has done the most damage to the world throughout history
10.) What makes you happy?
11.) do you understand what it means to believe in a higher power?
12.) what would you be willing to die for? What would you be willing to sacrifice what you’d die for, for?
I’m on a tablet so formatting isn’t going to happen, but I’ll do breaks or something.
If you haven’t read The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, I highly suggest you do if you want to understand Capitalism, just as I would probably be asked to read the Communist Manifesto to understand Communism.
Striving to improve in a situation that won’t entertain your ideals seems futile to me.
If you don’t see transitioning to communism ever happening or a long ways off, why not try to improve the capitalist society you live in today. We have social welfare programs for a reason, but they need improvement.
I ask about you caring about 7 billion people because while the idea of being able to is something most people would think they could do, Reading through the field of psychology suggests otherwise.
Collectivism is something I see as a cult who would be willing to sacrifice people for a greater good, rather than individuals seeing the benefit of mutual cooperation.
I suppose if you can’t detach the activitist part from it, feeding people can’t be criticized.
There was no right answer, just curious as to how you would answer.
Another, I just wanted to see how you would answer, I like people as well.
When I ask about a higher power, I have to ask why you do not believe. I’m not asking why you don’t believe in Santa clause, but why when some of the brightest minds did, you wouldn’t come to the same conclusion that one does exist in some form or another, be it empirical or conceptual.
When parents through history have been willing to sacrifice their children in war that goes beyond what you’d be willing to die for, so nothing like that?
Also you know this place isn’t somewhere to find civil discourse. You just kinda have to understand what this community is about.
If you haven’t read anything from Edward bernays or read Joseph goebbels tenets I suggest you do.
I want to leave you with a reading list that doesn’t sway any which way politically, just books to understand the world around you. I’ve been homeless, Ive saved lives, I’ve taken lives and I’ve worked to get us to mars. I’ve traveled the world not as a tourist but lived in many different societies. I’m saying that as it might give you some incentive to pick these books or audiobooks up.
Again, The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
Mans search for meaning by Viktor Frankl
The Gulag Archipelago By Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn
Memories, Dreams, Reflections By Carl Jung
The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William L. Shirer
The Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi
The Prince By Niccolò Machiavelli
Meditations By Marcus Aurelius
Republic by Plato
Propaganda by Edward Bernays
If you just would rather stick to podcasts, listen to dan Carlin’s hardcore history.
This is humanity and the world you live in. If you don’t understand this you live in the dark and your dreams will always be just that, dreams. You’re young, passionate and just want what’s best for the world. Intellect is nothing without wisdom.
Same. I have a feeling your views will change as you grow older, and I believe in a world where people can have opposing views yet still talk to each other. When I was in high school socialism sounded great, I hated the military and was an edgy atheist. Here I am now, a veteran, I believe in a higher power and understand why our capitalist society is the better options despite its flaws. Again, the books aren’t meant to sway you away from socialism, just to give you wisdom of the world I wish someone would have given me in my early 20’s.
Who hurt you?
Are you a lazy lay?
Following a communist revolution, is it acceptable to hang people who do not hand over their food to you?
Are you a Maoist?
Are you larping? Did you just refer to Mao as a thoughtful individual?
Do you think Freedom of Religion could exist in a communist society, or do you think atheism should be compulsory?
Get a job loser.
When do yuu plan on becoming a good communist?
The young part was painfully obvious.
Take about 30 more spins around the sun or so, and you will look back and think dear God, how could I have been this naive.
Once again, Communism does not mimic human nature, therefore it, just like all of its' utopian predecessors, will always be doomed to fail.
As I said to a friend in college who got turned on for a while by this crap:
" Nice theory. Now what species did you have this in mind for? Because it certainly cannot be human beings."
Comparing small closely related groups with a modern nation is preposterous.
Nor were these societies diverse. They were largely homogeneous and or closely related. They also had low capital requirements, since they weren't conducting research, inventing technology, building centers of learning, etc. etc.
Singing Kumbaya around a campfire in a primitive hunter/gatherer/light agriculture society is one thing. Building a modern nation is quite different.
Tweezing out a few sparse examples of primitive people or other small societies behavior (which is open to interpretation and bias of the observer), and then extrapolating that it must be the default setting for all humans is nuts, when the overwhelming evidence of recorded history points to different conclusion.
If you're living in a Western Capitalist country, why? You have other choices more in line with your political beliefs, so why stay in my country?
You are POOR most likely because of your choices. You can choose to work at jobs that will lift you out of poverty. You can choose to get different types of training that will qualify you for jobs that will lift you out of poverty. So, why aren't you doing it? Why are you choosing to be poor? Seriously, anybody can get a job at Amazon and they pay 13-16 dollars and hour. If you think that is being "poor", you seriously need to learn more about what real poverty is. If you have internet and food and some type of shelter and a cell phone, YOU ARE NOT POOR. My grandmother didn't have indoor plumbing. She gave us kids baths in a wash tub warmed up with a teakettle on a wood burning stove. She had to sing her kids to sleep because they cried from the pain in their stomachs from not having enough food. You are not in that situation. You just think you're poor.
You sound like my history teacher. He would say what’s in the book then side note how much of the atrocities are left out. And that we are r learning revisionist history instead of truth