Yanno, I used to disagree with the message that "You need to depend on Christianity for morals" But now that I've seen what America has turned into... I kind of want those moral christian values back. Plus Ironically we draw from those traditional christian values every day of our life. So it makes sense.
Not everyone has an inner voice telling them what's right or wrong. I used to think they did. Or, they don't listen to it. Either way, same thing. In any case, most of those values are just common sense. They come back to you more than if you try to bypass them. It's, just, how it is.
Same. I thought everybody has to be yanno... Sentient. But these Antifa people just..... Would it be OK to say they act like Animals? Because they literally have no humanity. it's just all Animistic instinct to them
It’s not a bad thing to follow a doctrine that has lasted thousands of years and created the most advanced and free societies the world has ever known.
You clearly have no idea what collapsed the European economy into the dark ages. It was loss of trade across the Mediterranean. Look at when the collapse occurred, and compare it to the rise of Islam.
It is poverty that prevented people from literacy, learning, and meaningful Christianity.
You have your horse and your carriage thoroughly confused.
The problem with that is that even if you keep the good parts of the philosophy, the metaphysical portion is bunk.
Do you have any non-metaphysical or physical evidence to support your position?
Technically, Christian philosophy got us out of the dark ages, but Christian religion got us into it in the first place.
Officially, Christian philosophy and values upon which we founded the most successful and just countries on Earth is what got us out of the dark ages. To blame the "Christian religion" for getting us "into it in the first place" is to willfully ignore the absolutely destructive and destabilizing force that was brought by bloodthirsty savages bursting out of the Arabian peninsula from the 600s onward. These gullible imbeciles raped, stole, killed, and destroyed everything in their way in the name of a false god, and for the ultimate hope of gaining the opportunity to rape 72 giant, transparent-skinned, perpetual virgins for eternity. This calamity is what really destabilized what was at the time a prosperous region, full of trans-Mediterranean trade and a common faith and culture. Remember that this tragedy did not only advance by land, but that it raided towns across the Mediterranean, everywhere, unpredictably and without pause for hundreds of years. This is what got us into, and kept us in the dark ages.
I interpret a lot of the bible as symbology rather than literal events to teach the ethics in a way people can understand in a time when literacy was rare. I still believe in God and accept Jesus, just don't follow organized religion. I think it has a lot to do with not having that sort of community in my life and growing up in a leftist degenerate shithole of a city, and that sort of organized religion is probably good overall.
People in the US aren't raised anymore by other people. They're just given daycare and vidya. That inner voice usually isn't spontaneous, but rather needs to be taught and developed in most people by the people raising them.
That's crazy, saying to not touch something that is so hot you can feel the heat coming off of it is also common sense, unfortunately the University education system in the US trains that out of people to the point they couldn't find their ass without a textbook telling them where it is.
"they couldn't find their ass without a textbook". That's a great phrase. I could picture the kid looking up the book and the book describing "your ass is located on top of your legs and below your spine."
Also, it seems to me, outside of math, science and foreign language, it might be better to learn without a textbook.
I've said for years, as an atheist, that the 10 Commandments aren't a bad way to live. You don't have to follow all of them, and to the letter, but they're a pretty damned good moral code as a basis. Our code of law is based on them.
Without God, without Christ and His Holy Spirit, "morality" and a sense of right and wrong is unknowable and unattainable.
Am I saying that people who have faith in God have an unquestioned compass of right and wrong and flawless morality? Absolutely not. We're still flawed human beings with a sinful nature.
Am I saying that people who lack faith in God have no ability to act in the "right" way occasionally, or even frequently? Absolutely not.
What I am saying is that without God and His word as your guiding compass, you are wholly separate from the light and can only continue to fumble in the darkness. Sometimes you will make right and just choices. Often times you will not, thinking that you in fact are. But without Him, you are building your worldly sense of morality, justice and "rightness" on a fundamentally flawed foundation.
It cannot and will not co-exist alongside the perfect and complete righteousness of God. No amount of wailing or gnashing of teeth will change this.
See, I like to believe personally (And I've heard this sect of Christianity before) But that God was a logical being, and he created us to be logical creatures who use Logic and reasoning to decide things. His words in turn, are logical and reasonable. While a lot of the lessons in the bible have what I consider "set dressing" when you remove all of the set dressing, and get down to brass tacks, they're pretty logical and reasonable ways to live. Now obviously I'm not a dyed in the wool perfect christian, but I try to follow his light and I try to live up to his moral standard.
Set dressing is cultural context. Add to that linguistic difficulties, ironing those out not in English but getting a better gist of what the original language is trying to convey which can be done without having to learn the actual language
and you've got most of Scriptural understanding. This is why it's good to caution against reading the whole Bible through for the first time by beginning in Genesis and just going to the end. If you start in John and go to the end you encounter a much more confined "set dressing," and at least the language functions somewhat like our own.
I don't think morality is unknowable and unattainable without God. I believe that morals and ethics came before - If I live in a community where I make tools and my neighbor grows wheat, I know that by killing my neighbor I can't barter for wheat any longer, for example. I think that morals and ethics, in their basic principles, are based in selfishness/survival in communities. I think religion drastically helped spread the basics of morals, however I don't believe religion is the basis.
Justice, mercy, and faithfulness, as Christ pointed out in Matthew 23:23 are the more important matters of "the law". Without any one of them you will end up in chaos.
In Rome, unwanted babies were thrown in the trash. Literally.
Christians adopted them, and this helped Christianity grow.
Might be the reason they prefer the children be murdered?
Yanno, I used to disagree with the message that "You need to depend on Christianity for morals" But now that I've seen what America has turned into... I kind of want those moral christian values back. Plus Ironically we draw from those traditional christian values every day of our life. So it makes sense.
Not everyone has an inner voice telling them what's right or wrong. I used to think they did. Or, they don't listen to it. Either way, same thing. In any case, most of those values are just common sense. They come back to you more than if you try to bypass them. It's, just, how it is.
Yep, Some people are un-ironically NPCs, And it's honestly a little scary.
I used to think it was just a meme. Now I'm not so sure.
Same. I thought everybody has to be yanno... Sentient. But these Antifa people just..... Would it be OK to say they act like Animals? Because they literally have no humanity. it's just all Animistic instinct to them
It’s not a bad thing to follow a doctrine that has lasted thousands of years and created the most advanced and free societies the world has ever known.
You clearly have no idea what collapsed the European economy into the dark ages. It was loss of trade across the Mediterranean. Look at when the collapse occurred, and compare it to the rise of Islam.
It is poverty that prevented people from literacy, learning, and meaningful Christianity.
You have your horse and your carriage thoroughly confused.
Do you have any non-metaphysical or physical evidence to support your position?
Officially, Christian philosophy and values upon which we founded the most successful and just countries on Earth is what got us out of the dark ages. To blame the "Christian religion" for getting us "into it in the first place" is to willfully ignore the absolutely destructive and destabilizing force that was brought by bloodthirsty savages bursting out of the Arabian peninsula from the 600s onward. These gullible imbeciles raped, stole, killed, and destroyed everything in their way in the name of a false god, and for the ultimate hope of gaining the opportunity to rape 72 giant, transparent-skinned, perpetual virgins for eternity. This calamity is what really destabilized what was at the time a prosperous region, full of trans-Mediterranean trade and a common faith and culture. Remember that this tragedy did not only advance by land, but that it raided towns across the Mediterranean, everywhere, unpredictably and without pause for hundreds of years. This is what got us into, and kept us in the dark ages.
Here is a summary in two mins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuxqXjhl13Y
Five minute summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
Here is a the more detailed version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wugWj42pLI
I interpret a lot of the bible as symbology rather than literal events to teach the ethics in a way people can understand in a time when literacy was rare. I still believe in God and accept Jesus, just don't follow organized religion. I think it has a lot to do with not having that sort of community in my life and growing up in a leftist degenerate shithole of a city, and that sort of organized religion is probably good overall.
People in the US aren't raised anymore by other people. They're just given daycare and vidya. That inner voice usually isn't spontaneous, but rather needs to be taught and developed in most people by the people raising them.
That's crazy, saying to not touch something that is so hot you can feel the heat coming off of it is also common sense, unfortunately the University education system in the US trains that out of people to the point they couldn't find their ass without a textbook telling them where it is.
It's not that their heads are empty, they are full of what isn't true.
"they couldn't find their ass without a textbook". That's a great phrase. I could picture the kid looking up the book and the book describing "your ass is located on top of your legs and below your spine."
Also, it seems to me, outside of math, science and foreign language, it might be better to learn without a textbook.
You're engaging in post-mpost-modernism.
You say this only because you lack it.
I've said for years, as an atheist, that the 10 Commandments aren't a bad way to live. You don't have to follow all of them, and to the letter, but they're a pretty damned good moral code as a basis. Our code of law is based on them.
Yep. I try to live by them and other morals, I'm not perfect but damn do I try to live my best life
See? This guy gets it.
100% same.
Meh, I'm an atheist, still pro-life. Don't need the bible to know killing babies is wrong.
Just like with harming domesticated animals, Babies while they can't verbalize like us grown up humans, are still humans and should be protected.
Same, but we're the exception, not the rule. I think most people, based on where we're at today, absolutely do need the bible to tell them that.
Without God, without Christ and His Holy Spirit, "morality" and a sense of right and wrong is unknowable and unattainable.
Am I saying that people who have faith in God have an unquestioned compass of right and wrong and flawless morality? Absolutely not. We're still flawed human beings with a sinful nature.
Am I saying that people who lack faith in God have no ability to act in the "right" way occasionally, or even frequently? Absolutely not.
What I am saying is that without God and His word as your guiding compass, you are wholly separate from the light and can only continue to fumble in the darkness. Sometimes you will make right and just choices. Often times you will not, thinking that you in fact are. But without Him, you are building your worldly sense of morality, justice and "rightness" on a fundamentally flawed foundation.
It cannot and will not co-exist alongside the perfect and complete righteousness of God. No amount of wailing or gnashing of teeth will change this.
See, I like to believe personally (And I've heard this sect of Christianity before) But that God was a logical being, and he created us to be logical creatures who use Logic and reasoning to decide things. His words in turn, are logical and reasonable. While a lot of the lessons in the bible have what I consider "set dressing" when you remove all of the set dressing, and get down to brass tacks, they're pretty logical and reasonable ways to live. Now obviously I'm not a dyed in the wool perfect christian, but I try to follow his light and I try to live up to his moral standard.
Set dressing is cultural context. Add to that linguistic difficulties, ironing those out not in English but getting a better gist of what the original language is trying to convey which can be done without having to learn the actual language
and you've got most of Scriptural understanding. This is why it's good to caution against reading the whole Bible through for the first time by beginning in Genesis and just going to the end. If you start in John and go to the end you encounter a much more confined "set dressing," and at least the language functions somewhat like our own.
From there, the OT is much more approachable.
I don't think morality is unknowable and unattainable without God. I believe that morals and ethics came before - If I live in a community where I make tools and my neighbor grows wheat, I know that by killing my neighbor I can't barter for wheat any longer, for example. I think that morals and ethics, in their basic principles, are based in selfishness/survival in communities. I think religion drastically helped spread the basics of morals, however I don't believe religion is the basis.
I don't believe religion is the basis, either.
Quite the opposite, I think religion is a bane to morality much of the time.
I believe that Jesus is the basis to morality. Pure and simple.
Justice, mercy, and faithfulness, as Christ pointed out in Matthew 23:23 are the more important matters of "the law". Without any one of them you will end up in chaos.
In Rome, unwanted babies were thrown in the trash. Literally.
Christians adopted them, and this helped Christianity grow.
Might be the reason they prefer the children be murdered?
Maybe actually. I'm no Theological or spiritual scholar, but the moral ethics of the far left at this point would make anybody rational scream.
Insightful comment!