It’s not a bad thing to follow a doctrine that has lasted thousands of years and created the most advanced and free societies the world has ever known.
Yeah, I'm about 90% certain the reason the Dark Ages line up within about 500 years of Islam coming on the scene was because Islam put countless libraries to the torch. They literally burned hundreds of years of cultural and intellectual development and set the world back because, "mUhh PrOOpheT MuiHamMad".
What you argued here reflects on the indoctrination that many high school students are being exposed to when it comes to history.
Misconception 01: Roman Civilization collapsed.
The reality is that Roman civilization went through a "restructuring". The last part of Roman History, the "Late Antiquity", is a period of time when what we know of Roman Civilization, portrayed in our movies, transitioned into what we associate with Medieval Europe. Europe "looked Medieval" long before the end of the last Western Roman Emperor's rule.
Roman civilization transformed into Medieval civilization, which transformed into Renaissance civilization then modern western civilization. The Roman political infrastructure and organization collapsed, but western civilization continued on. The main reason for this will be addressed with the next misconception.
Misconception 02: Church was "anti-intellectual"
This is a false statement. The church was heavy on preserving the ancient knowledge... And on building it. Many of the Germanic tribes that entered the Western Roman Empire were also Christians. However, they did not know how to administer the cities and towns that they ended up dominating. Additionally, converting to the form of Christianity practiced by the Roman population was a way for the Germanic kings to gain legitimacy with them.
This created a working relation between the Church and the Germanic Kings. The Church administered the towns/cities while providing a source of unity. The Germanic Kings, like the later Roman Emperors, saw the unifying force that Christianity made possible. The Germanic tribes/kingdoms adapted the Roman ways.
The church leveraged this to convince the Germanic Kings to support the church's initiatives to preserve and develop knowledge. It is also the philosophy of the church that contributed to the continued search and expansion of knowledge. It was one way to get closer to God… Understanding his creation better. You touched on this in your response, but did not connected with a complete set of facts.
Collectively, their efforts led to development of what would eventually become "the scientific method". Associated with this effort was a standing up of what would eventually become the West's university systems. The first universities, in the West, started on church campuses.
Misconception 03: Galileo was persecuted for his sun-centrist solar system theory
This is one example that people use to criticize the church, and claim that it was "anti-scientific". As I mentioned above, it was the church that developed what would eventually become the scientific method.
The Pope had given Galileo an audience to explain his sun centered universe theory. This was not an argument about whether the earth or the sun was the center of the solar system or not. This was an argument as to whether the earth, or the sun, was the center of the universe.
As of the time this was occurring, the church was funding a group of Christians who were working to mathematically prove that the earth orbited the sun. Until then, even if the evidence was strong toward the earth orbiting the sun, the entire concept was still a theory. They did not have sufficient evidence. Galileo was told that he could go ahead and publish his work with the disclaimer that it was a theory.
He didn't. He published his work as if it were a fact and he mocked the Pope. At that time, he came across as a "conspiracy theorist" would today. It wasn't just the church that thought that the earth was the center of the universe. Everybody and his brother did. People relied on watching the constellations in the sky, and the moon, during the year, in order to plan their farming and other seasonal activities. It appeared, to them, that the whole universe went around the earth.
So, the outcome was inevitable.
Misconception 04: the church held back scientific/technological progress
This is false. In addition to the church developing the scientific method, they incorporated the concept of continuous technological improvements. Prior to that, a revolution in technology was not always followed by additional revolutions in technology. People used the same technology for centuries, even millennia. The church's efforts, to preserve knowledge, and to develop it, brought us into an era of continuous technological innovation.
In fact, Christian monks would have introduced the Industrial Revolution in Europe centuries earlier had it not been "stopped" by political effort.
It was no accident that the West emerged from the medieval period to achieve greatness compared to the other civilizations. The West still leads today, with United States as its standard bearer.
The anti-intellectualism and priest class of the church is what kept it there.
You misspelled Islam and the bubonic plague.
The dark ages weren't just marked by the Roman collapse (which had nothing to do with "degeneracy")
Please present evidence to support your position that Roman collapse had nothing to do with degeneracy.
but the period afterwards in which scientific and artistic advancement stagnated. This was because the priest class asserted that all truth was in the bible, and more specifically their interpretation of it.
Yes, surely the stagnation of scientific and artistic advancement had nothing to do with hundreds of years of unending raids from floor worshipers all over the Mediterranean, even as far away as Ireland. Everybody knows that painting, sculpting, and research can be successfully achieved despite hundreds of years of surprise raids by black rock worshippers.
The enlightenment period was more a rejection of the priest class and the infallibility of the bible,
Martin Luther has entered the chat.
but not a rejection of Christianity. The artists and scientists believed that science was a way to understand god, as it's literally the study of god's creation.
Well look at that, we actually agree on something.
You clearly have no idea what collapsed the European economy into the dark ages. It was loss of trade across the Mediterranean. Look at when the collapse occurred, and compare it to the rise of Islam.
It is poverty that prevented people from literacy, learning, and meaningful Christianity.
You have your horse and your carriage thoroughly confused.
The problem with that is that even if you keep the good parts of the philosophy, the metaphysical portion is bunk.
Do you have any non-metaphysical or physical evidence to support your position?
Technically, Christian philosophy got us out of the dark ages, but Christian religion got us into it in the first place.
Officially, Christian philosophy and values upon which we founded the most successful and just countries on Earth is what got us out of the dark ages. To blame the "Christian religion" for getting us "into it in the first place" is to willfully ignore the absolutely destructive and destabilizing force that was brought by bloodthirsty savages bursting out of the Arabian peninsula from the 600s onward. These gullible imbeciles raped, stole, killed, and destroyed everything in their way in the name of a false god, and for the ultimate hope of gaining the opportunity to rape 72 giant, transparent-skinned, perpetual virgins for eternity. This calamity is what really destabilized what was at the time a prosperous region, full of trans-Mediterranean trade and a common faith and culture. Remember that this tragedy did not only advance by land, but that it raided towns across the Mediterranean, everywhere, unpredictably and without pause for hundreds of years. This is what got us into, and kept us in the dark ages.
I interpret a lot of the bible as symbology rather than literal events to teach the ethics in a way people can understand in a time when literacy was rare. I still believe in God and accept Jesus, just don't follow organized religion. I think it has a lot to do with not having that sort of community in my life and growing up in a leftist degenerate shithole of a city, and that sort of organized religion is probably good overall.
It’s not a bad thing to follow a doctrine that has lasted thousands of years and created the most advanced and free societies the world has ever known.
Yeah, I'm about 90% certain the reason the Dark Ages line up within about 500 years of Islam coming on the scene was because Islam put countless libraries to the torch. They literally burned hundreds of years of cultural and intellectual development and set the world back because, "mUhh PrOOpheT MuiHamMad".
You thought correctly. I teach ancient history.
My ancestors the Vikings had something to do with that, too! I'm kinda proud that a motley crew could defeat the greatest military ever known.
Also, not taught, is Islam's deliberate destruction of European trade. The resulting poverty crushed society.
All these factors combined.
It was degeneracy plus letting hordes of barbarians settle inside of their empire...
What you argued here reflects on the indoctrination that many high school students are being exposed to when it comes to history.
Misconception 01: Roman Civilization collapsed.
The reality is that Roman civilization went through a "restructuring". The last part of Roman History, the "Late Antiquity", is a period of time when what we know of Roman Civilization, portrayed in our movies, transitioned into what we associate with Medieval Europe. Europe "looked Medieval" long before the end of the last Western Roman Emperor's rule.
Roman civilization transformed into Medieval civilization, which transformed into Renaissance civilization then modern western civilization. The Roman political infrastructure and organization collapsed, but western civilization continued on. The main reason for this will be addressed with the next misconception.
Misconception 02: Church was "anti-intellectual"
This is a false statement. The church was heavy on preserving the ancient knowledge... And on building it. Many of the Germanic tribes that entered the Western Roman Empire were also Christians. However, they did not know how to administer the cities and towns that they ended up dominating. Additionally, converting to the form of Christianity practiced by the Roman population was a way for the Germanic kings to gain legitimacy with them.
This created a working relation between the Church and the Germanic Kings. The Church administered the towns/cities while providing a source of unity. The Germanic Kings, like the later Roman Emperors, saw the unifying force that Christianity made possible. The Germanic tribes/kingdoms adapted the Roman ways.
The church leveraged this to convince the Germanic Kings to support the church's initiatives to preserve and develop knowledge. It is also the philosophy of the church that contributed to the continued search and expansion of knowledge. It was one way to get closer to God… Understanding his creation better. You touched on this in your response, but did not connected with a complete set of facts.
Collectively, their efforts led to development of what would eventually become "the scientific method". Associated with this effort was a standing up of what would eventually become the West's university systems. The first universities, in the West, started on church campuses.
Misconception 03: Galileo was persecuted for his sun-centrist solar system theory
This is one example that people use to criticize the church, and claim that it was "anti-scientific". As I mentioned above, it was the church that developed what would eventually become the scientific method.
The Pope had given Galileo an audience to explain his sun centered universe theory. This was not an argument about whether the earth or the sun was the center of the solar system or not. This was an argument as to whether the earth, or the sun, was the center of the universe.
As of the time this was occurring, the church was funding a group of Christians who were working to mathematically prove that the earth orbited the sun. Until then, even if the evidence was strong toward the earth orbiting the sun, the entire concept was still a theory. They did not have sufficient evidence. Galileo was told that he could go ahead and publish his work with the disclaimer that it was a theory.
He didn't. He published his work as if it were a fact and he mocked the Pope. At that time, he came across as a "conspiracy theorist" would today. It wasn't just the church that thought that the earth was the center of the universe. Everybody and his brother did. People relied on watching the constellations in the sky, and the moon, during the year, in order to plan their farming and other seasonal activities. It appeared, to them, that the whole universe went around the earth.
So, the outcome was inevitable.
Misconception 04: the church held back scientific/technological progress
This is false. In addition to the church developing the scientific method, they incorporated the concept of continuous technological improvements. Prior to that, a revolution in technology was not always followed by additional revolutions in technology. People used the same technology for centuries, even millennia. The church's efforts, to preserve knowledge, and to develop it, brought us into an era of continuous technological innovation.
In fact, Christian monks would have introduced the Industrial Revolution in Europe centuries earlier had it not been "stopped" by political effort.
It was no accident that the West emerged from the medieval period to achieve greatness compared to the other civilizations. The West still leads today, with United States as its standard bearer.
You misspelled Islam and the bubonic plague.
Please present evidence to support your position that Roman collapse had nothing to do with degeneracy.
Yes, surely the stagnation of scientific and artistic advancement had nothing to do with hundreds of years of unending raids from floor worshipers all over the Mediterranean, even as far away as Ireland. Everybody knows that painting, sculpting, and research can be successfully achieved despite hundreds of years of surprise raids by black rock worshippers.
Martin Luther has entered the chat.
Well look at that, we actually agree on something.
You clearly have no idea what collapsed the European economy into the dark ages. It was loss of trade across the Mediterranean. Look at when the collapse occurred, and compare it to the rise of Islam.
It is poverty that prevented people from literacy, learning, and meaningful Christianity.
You have your horse and your carriage thoroughly confused.
You're ignorant of facts. Is that because you're poor? I doubt it. You could learn, but you apparently prefer to remain ignorant.
Do you have any non-metaphysical or physical evidence to support your position?
Officially, Christian philosophy and values upon which we founded the most successful and just countries on Earth is what got us out of the dark ages. To blame the "Christian religion" for getting us "into it in the first place" is to willfully ignore the absolutely destructive and destabilizing force that was brought by bloodthirsty savages bursting out of the Arabian peninsula from the 600s onward. These gullible imbeciles raped, stole, killed, and destroyed everything in their way in the name of a false god, and for the ultimate hope of gaining the opportunity to rape 72 giant, transparent-skinned, perpetual virgins for eternity. This calamity is what really destabilized what was at the time a prosperous region, full of trans-Mediterranean trade and a common faith and culture. Remember that this tragedy did not only advance by land, but that it raided towns across the Mediterranean, everywhere, unpredictably and without pause for hundreds of years. This is what got us into, and kept us in the dark ages.
Here is a summary in two mins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuxqXjhl13Y
Five minute summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_To-cV94Bo
Here is a the more detailed version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wugWj42pLI
I interpret a lot of the bible as symbology rather than literal events to teach the ethics in a way people can understand in a time when literacy was rare. I still believe in God and accept Jesus, just don't follow organized religion. I think it has a lot to do with not having that sort of community in my life and growing up in a leftist degenerate shithole of a city, and that sort of organized religion is probably good overall.