And if you guys know Bible Translations, every single month there seems to be more and more translations trying to encapsulate a wider audience. And you know what that means, eventually it will say that abortion is okay for the greater good of humanity or some shit.
Straight KJV guy here, will read others from time to time to keep up on changes and removals and whatnot. But being an Independent Baptist, we generally view Christian contemporary music as just as bad as any other music out in the world. While the messaging in some songs can be pretty atrocious, it really comes down to the rhythm, the songs could just as easily fit in with worldly lyrics and no one would question it. Whether or not you believe in the Influence the devil has over music, the Bible touches on the need for psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, and I don't believe contemporary Christian music fits into those categories. Evil coming from the likes of Hillsong definitely wouldn't surprise me.
I found an old 1812 Holy Bible with translations out of the original tongues. It's leather bound and has hemp paper pages. Kind of cool reading the "ye shall" and "asked he them again". There are words where the letter "f" is inserted or replaced a letter. After awhile, one gets used to it and can figure out what the meaning is. Quite different from other Bibles I have read.
I understand that the namesake is suspect, but i believe that the Spirit of God was with the translators and that they came through with the utmost care and pure intent. Reading how, and to what standards they kept with to complete that translation, i dont believe there was ever a generation, short of those original copies of the gospels, that could ever pull off what they were able to succeed in doing, including this generation.
E.t.a i do from time to time read other translations as well, but as far as reference to what is, in my mind the most accurate, i hold no other up to standard.
Kjv is riddled with translation issues because it is based off the Latin Vougate. NASB is a better translation because it uses the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. NASB's mission statement is that they try and stay as close to the original texts as possible. That is why it is, at times hard to read.
The best rule of thumb is to use three different translations because Hebrew and Greek don't translate to English well at all
I really like KJV but my reading skills aren't the greatest. I like to read the various translations as long as they are literal. The old NASB is good too. I'll usually fall back on ESV though since it was the translation of my first bible.
Old NASB is my fallback, too. Just a good, literal translation, using better and more varied sources than the King James.
This is a HUGE area of study.
KJV only folks are Ruckmanites - they follow a discredited dude named Ruckman, who was the first guy to push that stuff. Interesting stuff on Youtube about it.
I alos like the Amplified, because it goes into so much detail. But it's just a supportive text, IMO. The real way to do it, for us non-Hebrew/Greek scholars, is get an interlinear version, tied into Strongs, with the Greek and Hebrew words in text, or tied to a lexicon at the back. I have a few of those. Really brings out the scripture.
I've tried using interlinear Hebrew/English prayer books. They give me a headache, primarily because Hebrew is read right to left and English is the other way.
I guess the closest thing to my theology you could say is reformed Baptist, mildly charismatic. But I don't really think in terms of church schism and denominational succession, even though I love the history. I also like and admire many of the old High Churches, although I differ significantly in terms of doctrine.
CCM makes helicopter blades spin backwards and the drumbeat goes against the natural rhythm of the heartbeat amirite? Lmao...independent baptists are a cult change my mind.
If you mean a group of people who worship someone/something then yes, we are a cult, but any religious group could qualify under this definition. If you mean to call us strange, then also yes. We are strange to people who live a worldly lifestyle. Anything other than that I would disagree. Not here to change minds.
Baptists only have a few distinctive beliefs; they are close to vanilla evangelical Protestant.
Therefore independent Baptist = independent vanilla evangelical Protestant.
In theory anyway, the name suffers due to all the disgruntled factionalist squabbler types who fall out with their local Baptist church.
My independent fundamentalist baptist parents would beg to differ..lol. And me and my sisters who had to deal with all the very much distinct beliefs that make them segregate themselves from just about every other group of Christians because “we are the holier true believers” mentality.
It’s probably closer in practice to messianic jews or mennonites than other Christian denominations. It’s steeped in tradition and living a “holy (separate from the world) lifestyle”. I’m going to generalize slightly, but they are against women wearing pants, swimming in public (if swimming at all, must wear shorts and shirts), electric instruments and drums are wicked and of the devil (only classical and hymns are allowed to be listened to), no public education - this is where the socially awkward homeschooler stereotype originated (including college), must wear suits and ties to church (women must wear dresses below the knee and a head covering in some churches), no alcohol (won’t even eat at places that serve alcohol) or cannabis use (even to treat epilepsy) or mention (prescribed pharmaceuticals usually get a pass - except for an epidural shot during pregnancy), condoms and all forms of birth control are evil because it is Gods decision when pregnancies occur (this leads to a lot of unexpected pregnancies among the unwed youth because they aren’t taught about safe sex), private dating is discouraged because it can lead to “fornication” so they prefer Public courting. No physical touching the opposite sex until marriage. Much more I could go on and on.
All of this is steeped in heavy tradition of past centuries and human interpretations of the Bible. What’s sad is there is a very high rate of suicide, drug abuse, and other psychological harm within the 13-30 age group of these “fundies”. They separate their children from just about every form of normal living and then are very judgmental with discipline without explaining anything with logic. Just “that’s wicked and worldly and now you have to repent and question your salvation”.
Yes, but it's not like there is a central organization of independent Baptists. By definition they are....independent.
I'm not at all defending graceless fundies who pervert the word of God, I've known some too. And I think it's great that you've remained in the faith, as you rightly point out that such churches do not inculcate it at all well.
But: your original comment was a categorical statement about independent Baptists as a group. You're going to see a lot more good, decent independent Baptists in the future, as various Baptist conferences go liberal.
The King James Version. Or as we call it at Church, the "Authorized Version."
All that "old language" that everyone wants to get rid of? It's actually VERY exact. As a simple example, "You" or "Ye" is "All of You," plural. But "Thou" or "Thee," that means YOU, person I am speaking directly to.
Oh, but the New Version is going to clean all that up. Ignore the now missing 42 references to the Deity of Christ.
Have you ever seen/heard Jewell Smith, How Much did your Bible Cost? Talks about the early Bibles. Definitely respect the Christians who risked their lives for the Bible, the Geneva Bible being a major one.
I paid $90 for mine (great deal....used and in perfect condition). Unfortunately I don’t think anyone is reprinting them anymore. It’s a Patriot edition with the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and letters from George Washington. Unfortunately it’s the 1599 version. I would love to have the 1560 but haven’t found an affordable one so I have to cross check with the online versions. Have to be honest even by 1599 there were changes...or at least by the publishers.
On a side note, I just was gifted from my family a KJV printed in 1815, written in the ledger it was bought by my family in 1899. No one else cared about it so of course I snatched it up.
There is a whole, very interesting story behind the creation of the Geneva Bible. I've always wanted to get my hands on one.
VERY different approach from the royalism-tied King James (who was a devout Catholic, and in my opinion, royalism goes very much against our American Protestant/patriot roots, as Americans.)
I could way, way deep on this subject. One of my areas of scholarly research.
The Geneva Bible and the King James Bible are pretty much identical with differences here and there. The King James Bible is more for the Chruch of England (Which eventually found it outdated) and, the Geneva Bible is simply a protestant translation of the original scripts. The problem with both these Bibles is that they translated with very little correction, as English and Greek and Hebrew are very different languages, many translations are messed up.
This is why the Catholic Chruch continues to use Latin, not so you can't read it but, so it doesn't change. With the advent of the printing press, the first book published was a Catholic Latin Bible. The Chruch definitely started to open up after the Council of Trent. And honestly, the Chruch didn't change the Bible that much. The Vetus Latina was the first Latin version that was official by the Chruch in the 3rd century. It also takes the form of the first modern Bible since it actually had a set canon. The next official version was the Sixto-Clementine Vulgate which was still largely based on St. Jerome in 1592. For 400 years, that was the official Bible until the Nova Vulgata came into being under JP2. It simply rewrites from the original Hebrew and Greek texts. Some people debate this change as it diverts from Tradition. The Nova Vulgata still has yet to be confirmed by an ecumenical council, so it is still up for debate.
The American Roots are more Catholic than you think. One of our founding fathers where Catholic and, the idea for this style of Republic is also from people like St. Thomas Aquinas. Not to mention the idea that Rights are not given by the government but by God. America might say Protestant but, the wallpaper inside the house is all Catholic. The Catholic Chruch allows all kinds of governments, Aquinas stated which ones are bad, which ones are good. Monarchism and Republicanism are one of the good ones.
It's not suitable for theological study, it's pretty loose and a bit simplified.
BUT: it is soooo readable you can't hate it. When I'm tired or in a paticularly difficult spot of the Bible (esp the epistles) or just want a Psalm for enjoyment, I use it and it's great. If I'm trying to check doctrine or studying I switch back to NASB.
It also has an AWESOME audio version. Because the language is easy, I can put it on while doing computer programming, etc. $10 on Tecarta.
Everyone should try to incorporate several translations into their routine. Some lean more towards a literal translation and others try to capture the meaning. Both lose a little of the original text because it's difficult to fully understand the original languages and because different translators value different aspects. Having a main Bible and skimming a different one helps you capture things that might be lost in the translation that you usually read.
Reading through all y’alls responses about which is your Bible translation/transliteration of choice makes me super happy. This is why TheDonald.win is the best.
Second this, while NASB is my study bible, it's OK to want something a bit easier or even just with more flowing language. Sometimes switching to the CSB which is pretty loose means I'll spend an hour with the Bible for enjoyment when I might have given up with the (better translated) NASB.
Yea, I am of this persuasion also, I read one bible after another and have since I was 16. This year I went completely through a very old 1611 KJV that I was blessed with, that took me a fair amount longer than usual, and am now half way through The Message. I have a collection and have dedicated 1 to 2 hours a day to just reading a bible my entire adult life. This thread is awesome to see, glad there are others out there with a desire for logos.
"But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." - Matthew 18:6
If causing children to sin is reason for you to be drowned, what do you think the consequence is for murdering them?
Hillsong is known for music, because they have really good sounding music. The only problem is that is the end of their substance. The sermons are all super feel-goody positivity wins garbage. It appeals to very new christians as it makes you feel like you finally found a place of unending positivity.
I visited Hillsong NY in Brooklyn and it was the exact same experience as portrayed in Samantha B's (I know, terrible person) show called The Detour. They didn't have to change anything to make Christianity look dumb as they did a recreation of a Hillsong service. Real Christianity is not Hillsong.
I finally got to go to a Hillsong service in Amsterdam. It was good music and a shallow message as I had expected.
Used to love Hillsong United in high school. Non-denominational protestant worship groups are mostly a clique of fashionable popular people stroking their egos. It's gross.
There are Christians that lean left or right, as there are godless satanists that lean left or right. Unfortunately the latter seem to be more predominantly in the left as shown by their disdain for Jesus.
May God bless and protect those that serve him against evil.
I listened to Barron during the start of the pandemic then I heard him throw the parishioners under the bus when they rose to defend their churches from far-left attacks.
He would have been alright as your milque-toast church leader during milque-toast times. These are not those times.
Depends on what circles you travel in. A fair number of my Catholic friends are hoping Cardinal Sarah will be the next Pope, take the name Pius XIII, and urge everyone to switch back to Mass in the Extraordinary Form (a.k.a. the Traditional Latin Mass).
Keep in mind that Bishop Barron is also the auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles -- he can't really afford to rock the boat out there because it's a leftist hellhole.
it's my opinion that the church is so worried about getting young people and the diminishing numbers that they are compromising the doctrine.
They're not compromising the doctrine, they're failing to teach it entirely.
The boomers on the parish councils constantly harping on pastors don't give a crap about what the young people want. Older folks think the Second Vatican Council was the greatest thing ever and want Masses with friggin' tambourines and "uplifting" music, and they wonder why nobody in the 18-40 age range is in the pews.
You know where all the young Catholics are? AT THE LATIN MASS. We don't want tambourines, we want organ music and chanting and incense. We want solemnity, and penitence, and reverence for the Real Presence in the Eucharist, and sound doctrine. We want priests who reject modernism and aren't afraid to condemn it loudly and unambiguously from the pulpit.
Young Catholics want a Church that lifts them out of the cesspit of degeneracy that is modern secular society and raises them to the Lord our God.
And the priests you see nowadays coming out of the seminaries have exactly that same mindset.
In 20 years your average parish priest is going to make Pope Benedict XVI look like a mild-mannered moderate.
I don't think the Latin Mass is the answer, all this corruption happened while the Latin Mass was still going on.
That being said, the Latin Mass is much less acceptable to LItergical Abuse than the New Order Mass.
I pray that we maybe are able to interpret Vatican II with Tradition and not some radical modernist ideas.
I do also pray for the Council that the Pope will eventually call that clears away the clouds surrounding the Vatican. And brings forth a New Light from the Vatican.
I'm not advocating for doing away with Ordinary Form, but I absolutely agree that the Extraordinary Form Mass is far less susceptible to irreverent shenanigans.
There definitely do need to be some additional guidelines laid down on what is and is not acceptable at Ordinary Form Masses.
I agree, honestly though, I would call a Council together to sort this thing. We can't go back and, we can't stay in the present. The Catholic Church must push on to the future, hopefully to the Reign of Mary.
The brief overview is that Pope Benedict XVI was widely regarded by snivelling liberals as being even more conservative on social issues and more in favor of restoring older traditions than his predecessor, Pope St. John Paul the Great.
Pope Benedict XVI was the one who permitted priests to celebrate the Latin Mass without first having to obtain permission from their Bishop. He also spent a fair amount of his pontificate railing against moral relativism, which is the foundation for all the postmodernist intellectual garbage that the left uses in an attempt to justify their revolting iniquities.
Convert my dude, I really do want you to feel the same love that we in the Catholic Chruch feel. However, Protestant Denominations simply go all over the place. You need a Rock.
That we have a reasonable hope that ALL men are saved.
This is false, our Lord said that it would have been better off if Judas hadn't been born.
More recently,
Our Lady of Fatima also showed the children of Souls falling into hell, most because of sins of the flesh.
Many souls take the highway to hell, only a few climb the stairway to Heaven.
I'm unsure what you mean by children of souls. I have never heard the phrase. So please forgive me as I cannot answer the question.
I can answer the Faith alone question tho. Catholics believe we are saved by Faith alone. The question is how do we show our Faith to God, we do so by works. Christ stated so in Mattew 21:28-31
28 'What is your opinion? A man had two sons. He went and said to the first, "My boy, go and work in the vineyard today."
29 He answered, "I will not go," but afterwards thought better of it and went.
30 The man then went and said the same thing to the second who answered, "Certainly, sir," but did not go.
31 Which of the two did the father's will?' They said, 'The first.' Jesus said to them, 'In truth I tell you, tax collectors and prostitutes are making their way into the kingdom of God before you.
While the First son lacked faith, he changed his mind and did his work. The other son was faithful but didn't do his work. Who was more Faithful to his father? The first son.
James says Faith WITHOUT works is dead Chapter 2:26.
26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Most Jews understood this, which is why most Apostles didn't bring this up, of course, you need to work in the Faith to be saved. And it's not like James was the only one who believed this, otherwise, the other Apostles would of spoken out against the heresy. It is to our knowledge that the Apostles agree with each other and, if they didn't they would have a council to decide it, like the Council of Jerusalem.
The Apostles had to agree with each other because it is through them, that we know Christ. Christ did not write any books on Earth. It was up to them to share His word.
Slowly? The mainstream mega-churches have been cucked by feminism for decades.
It's not uncommon at all to find gaggles of women being gossips and busybodies IN THE CHURCH, and no one in authority will say a word. Every single biblical prohibition against women being anti-social, has been removed from doctrine.
Truth is, outside a few mostly rural holdouts, all of the churches have completely abandoned the Bible as a basis for their teachings.
Driving men, especially unmarried men, out of the churches was one of the first things Marxists focused on in this country. They accomplished their mission.
Don't use their music. It's almost heretical. Old gospel hymns are better. (And I'm a METAL musician. Dimebag is probably my favorite guitarist ever. So...)
But hey, it's okay to align with the candidate that abort babies and say that men can be women and have babies. So many hoity toity pastors these days. You would think they would appreciate the bully who is fighting for life and liberty on behalf of all of us. I have a couple of church-going friends who are Democrats and will be voting for Biden. If TDS was on a scale of 1-100, they are level 99. Can't have a pleasant conversation with them over lunch without them bashing POTUS every time.
Trump is a bully but he’s the American people’s bully and he’s fighting for us each and every day. He’s kicking our enemies’ asses. Biden is weak and only fights for himself and the deep state.
Thanks for finding that. I'm a Jew - but I never heard that there is anything in the New Testament that says "White People Suck" or anything like that.
Pretty sure that Jesus wasn't into bullying white people - but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Jesus overthrew the money changers in the temple. He literally made a whip to drive them out. (They were profiting off of the sales of temple sacrifices and offerings.)
If he bullied anyone, it was his fellow jews! (The elites, really.)
Unfortunately, yes they are. They have beautiful music but the last several years the lyrics have gone full hedonism. Really a shame, but that is how Satan works.
I have wrestled with this for a while. In fact I felt like I was in crisis because I had watched a video on YouTube about Prosperity Gospel. I watched a Netflix show documentary about it as well. I turned to God and asked Him if I am being led astray by listening to Hillsong and Bethel music.
I do not listen to their sermons, I only listen to worship music on Spotify, no other genre.. I feel the Holy Spirit surround me when I am worshipping. If the music brings people to God I do not think it is the issue. God uses evil for good.
I have read the lyrics of the songs and have not come across blasphemy or heresy in the lyrics. I asked if there are examples because I want to make sure that I am not offending God.
Totally understand. Not a salvation issue at all. I don't listen to lyrics much anyway - but having them up on a screen in your church is different, imo - higher standard.
I think you can sing just about any song to Christ if your heart is right and you are singing to Him. David made a fool of himself to the ridicule of others - but God saw into his heart and loved David as a man after His heart.
The Pastor of Hillsong wrote a book called YOU NEED MORE MONEY! Textbook example of a Prosperity Gospel church. Also, look into the rampant proven pedophilia of the founder of the church (the father of the current pastor). The current pastor excuses the pedophilia. Bogus church.
I'm glad I don't have to feel entirely alone when it comes to this. I attend a Pentecostal church (PAOC) but have become estranged with a lot of Pentecostal doctrine and the accompanying theatrics. I personally experienced marginalization trying to attend other churches because I'm introverted and don't meet God by waving flags, dancing and waving hands or rambling on in tongues. Now I don't disagree that some people meet God this way, but it shouldn't be the general barometer of a person's faith or belief. So much of this modern worship is just repetitive and meant to encourage those spiritual highs. We need to be listening and attentive to the words of God and not chase the spiritual high. I don't mind some of Hillsong's music but I definitely find old hymns, psalms and even older CCM to speak to me more than the repetition. I mean, jeepers, some of the Youtube videos associated with this music have in brackets (spontaneous worship) like it's catering to some individual need to "get into that headspace." Listen to God. Pray and read your bible. Do not get caught up in the world's ideals or religious institutionalism. God and His word are the final answer.
If it's compelled, it's not the Holy Spirit. Best to find a church that has good teaching or prayer. You can (should, even) still be friends with the Pentecostals.
IMO most modern worship songs are just that; they might be OK for worship, but they don't teach you anything at all. The best hymns boil a great lessom down into a memorable tune. Amazing Grace, Take it to The Lord in Prayer, etc, etc, etc.
And TBH the tunes and lyrics of the old hymns are way more fun to sing. Modern church music could have been Keith Green, but instead it ended up largely being repetitive soft rock chanting.
I am a staff member for a large baptist church, we have 5 campuses and a large online platform. I say that to say this - most of our staff are young crowd who believe wholly in the doctrine but have been at COLLEGE for 4 to 6 years. They get the same foolishness that other college students get, it takes years to wear them down into being less idealistic and more realistic. Thus this kind of tweet. The older staff or pastors are rarely open about their politics but you get a whiff of it when they talk about how disapppointing the mill. Gen is to them.
My dad was an Episcopalian minister but became dissolutioned with its liberalism.... found the Orthodox Church in America (oca.org) that still stands for beautuful traditional biblical belief and worship!
What do Episcopalians believe about salvation (how to get saved, do they believe in faith alone or faith + works, do they believe in once saved always saved)? u/littlebridges
I'm sorry, I know a lot of people even on .WIN feel like the president came across as a bully but, I am with Don Jr. on this. He was on Hannity after the debate and said (paraphrased) that "of course he seems defensive and angry, he has been forced to fight against the media every day he's been in office. You don't just turn that off" and, I'm sorry. If someone is straight-up lying like Biden was, I'd have to interrupt them, too.
Infiltration.
They know people will be tolerant of their shit, so they go in and try to sway people to their side. The far leftists have infiltrated almost every major social group. The church is of course one of them.
I'm not talking about the normal, decent kind of democrat who will have a conversation with you and listen to what you have to say. I mean the crazy, intolerant, racist kind who only want to push their agenda.
It's been happening a while. Good news is evil bishops popes and churches have existed since the beginning, and it doesn't stop the believers. They always get ousted in time
Kind of wished there was a way within government to remove critical race and gender theories and other wokery from religion that doesn’t shake up the freedom of religion clause in the constitution and separation of church and state.
The global elites have been working to infiltrate the churches and Christianity with liberal/marxist ideology for centuries. Jay Dyer does a good piece on going over the subject for those that are interested (starts at about 2:28:00):
Same with Churchome in Washington State. Hyper-woke, self-hating whites from the uppercrest talking about how muh white supremacy is contrary to the ideals of the church. The reactions from these people are both hilarious and disgusting.
True sheep. Incapable of rational discourse...yet oh so willing to absolutely shit on "vile trump supporters".
I can't speak to this church but I know most of the churches around me hire part time "social media consultants" to manage their social media accounts, and the hours and pay usually limits applicants to lefty college students that just want to get their parents off their backs about it being time to find a job.
I hate to admit it, but my Mother specifically goes to a church rn because it's all leftists politically. She's proud that they are pro-choice and one of their deacon's recent came out as a women (like a 60 yo male) and they all hate Trump, love ofaggot (during the primaries they wanted bootyplug). It's really sad but there's nothing I can do, she's brainwashed by the m5m
As a huge Hillsong fan, I am not happy. Churches need to stay out of politics. It’s great for individual Christians to be politically active, but religious organizations do not know squat about politics- they need to stick to religion.
And if you guys know Bible Translations, every single month there seems to be more and more translations trying to encapsulate a wider audience. And you know what that means, eventually it will say that abortion is okay for the greater good of humanity or some shit.
New KJV has a couple of issues even
Yup. NKJV too but it's not so bad..yet. They're due for a new revision. NRSV, NIV are some of the worst offenders. I'm an ESV/KJV/CSB guy.
Straight KJV guy here, will read others from time to time to keep up on changes and removals and whatnot. But being an Independent Baptist, we generally view Christian contemporary music as just as bad as any other music out in the world. While the messaging in some songs can be pretty atrocious, it really comes down to the rhythm, the songs could just as easily fit in with worldly lyrics and no one would question it. Whether or not you believe in the Influence the devil has over music, the Bible touches on the need for psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, and I don't believe contemporary Christian music fits into those categories. Evil coming from the likes of Hillsong definitely wouldn't surprise me.
This^ King James, with a concordance written before 1980 in my preference
I'm no "KJV-only" kind of guy. AT ALL. (The original texts in Greek and Hebrew are what are inspired, not translations.)
And I agree with this. Old KJV is hard to go wrong with. Even if good ol' King James was a semi-heathen, Catholic sodomite.
I found an old 1812 Holy Bible with translations out of the original tongues. It's leather bound and has hemp paper pages. Kind of cool reading the "ye shall" and "asked he them again". There are words where the letter "f" is inserted or replaced a letter. After awhile, one gets used to it and can figure out what the meaning is. Quite different from other Bibles I have read.
It's actually an ſ, not an f. (There's no crossbar.) The s that we currently use was only used after an ſ, as in "Congreſs ſhall make no law".
German still does this, having a single letter ß to replace the two letters ſs. It's often mistaken for the greek letter beta (β).
edit: track down Flanders & Swann's recording of "Greenſleeves" for an hilarious take on this.
Where did you find that? It sounds amazing.
I understand that the namesake is suspect, but i believe that the Spirit of God was with the translators and that they came through with the utmost care and pure intent. Reading how, and to what standards they kept with to complete that translation, i dont believe there was ever a generation, short of those original copies of the gospels, that could ever pull off what they were able to succeed in doing, including this generation.
E.t.a i do from time to time read other translations as well, but as far as reference to what is, in my mind the most accurate, i hold no other up to standard.
NASB is where it’s at.
If the following is true for people, it is true for a translation (if the translator(s) is faithful):
- Matthew 10:25 (KJV)
Kjv is riddled with translation issues because it is based off the Latin Vougate. NASB is a better translation because it uses the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic. NASB's mission statement is that they try and stay as close to the original texts as possible. That is why it is, at times hard to read.
The best rule of thumb is to use three different translations because Hebrew and Greek don't translate to English well at all
Agreed fren, i have five or six different translations including an in depth anthropological study bible.
I really like KJV but my reading skills aren't the greatest. I like to read the various translations as long as they are literal. The old NASB is good too. I'll usually fall back on ESV though since it was the translation of my first bible.
Old NASB is my fallback, too. Just a good, literal translation, using better and more varied sources than the King James.
This is a HUGE area of study.
KJV only folks are Ruckmanites - they follow a discredited dude named Ruckman, who was the first guy to push that stuff. Interesting stuff on Youtube about it.
I alos like the Amplified, because it goes into so much detail. But it's just a supportive text, IMO. The real way to do it, for us non-Hebrew/Greek scholars, is get an interlinear version, tied into Strongs, with the Greek and Hebrew words in text, or tied to a lexicon at the back. I have a few of those. Really brings out the scripture.
NASB is great! I don’t use anything else except my Greek interlinear New Testament.
This guy studies the Bible.
I've tried using interlinear Hebrew/English prayer books. They give me a headache, primarily because Hebrew is read right to left and English is the other way.
lol
I'm no Calvinist, bro.
I respect James, but I'm not a fan.
I guess the closest thing to my theology you could say is reformed Baptist, mildly charismatic. But I don't really think in terms of church schism and denominational succession, even though I love the history. I also like and admire many of the old High Churches, although I differ significantly in terms of doctrine.
NASB?
New American Standard Bible.
I do not agree with your opinion, but you most certainly are welcome to state it.
As are you, fren.
CCM makes helicopter blades spin backwards and the drumbeat goes against the natural rhythm of the heartbeat amirite? Lmao...independent baptists are a cult change my mind.
If you mean a group of people who worship someone/something then yes, we are a cult, but any religious group could qualify under this definition. If you mean to call us strange, then also yes. We are strange to people who live a worldly lifestyle. Anything other than that I would disagree. Not here to change minds.
Baptists only have a few distinctive beliefs; they are close to vanilla evangelical Protestant. Therefore independent Baptist = independent vanilla evangelical Protestant.
In theory anyway, the name suffers due to all the disgruntled factionalist squabbler types who fall out with their local Baptist church.
My independent fundamentalist baptist parents would beg to differ..lol. And me and my sisters who had to deal with all the very much distinct beliefs that make them segregate themselves from just about every other group of Christians because “we are the holier true believers” mentality.
It’s probably closer in practice to messianic jews or mennonites than other Christian denominations. It’s steeped in tradition and living a “holy (separate from the world) lifestyle”. I’m going to generalize slightly, but they are against women wearing pants, swimming in public (if swimming at all, must wear shorts and shirts), electric instruments and drums are wicked and of the devil (only classical and hymns are allowed to be listened to), no public education - this is where the socially awkward homeschooler stereotype originated (including college), must wear suits and ties to church (women must wear dresses below the knee and a head covering in some churches), no alcohol (won’t even eat at places that serve alcohol) or cannabis use (even to treat epilepsy) or mention (prescribed pharmaceuticals usually get a pass - except for an epidural shot during pregnancy), condoms and all forms of birth control are evil because it is Gods decision when pregnancies occur (this leads to a lot of unexpected pregnancies among the unwed youth because they aren’t taught about safe sex), private dating is discouraged because it can lead to “fornication” so they prefer Public courting. No physical touching the opposite sex until marriage. Much more I could go on and on.
All of this is steeped in heavy tradition of past centuries and human interpretations of the Bible. What’s sad is there is a very high rate of suicide, drug abuse, and other psychological harm within the 13-30 age group of these “fundies”. They separate their children from just about every form of normal living and then are very judgmental with discipline without explaining anything with logic. Just “that’s wicked and worldly and now you have to repent and question your salvation”.
Yes, but it's not like there is a central organization of independent Baptists. By definition they are....independent.
I'm not at all defending graceless fundies who pervert the word of God, I've known some too. And I think it's great that you've remained in the faith, as you rightly point out that such churches do not inculcate it at all well.
But: your original comment was a categorical statement about independent Baptists as a group. You're going to see a lot more good, decent independent Baptists in the future, as various Baptist conferences go liberal.
The King James Version. Or as we call it at Church, the "Authorized Version."
All that "old language" that everyone wants to get rid of? It's actually VERY exact. As a simple example, "You" or "Ye" is "All of You," plural. But "Thou" or "Thee," that means YOU, person I am speaking directly to.
Oh, but the New Version is going to clean all that up. Ignore the now missing 42 references to the Deity of Christ.
I’m a Geneva Bible ladypede.
Have you ever seen/heard Jewell Smith, How Much did your Bible Cost? Talks about the early Bibles. Definitely respect the Christians who risked their lives for the Bible, the Geneva Bible being a major one.
I paid $90 for mine (great deal....used and in perfect condition). Unfortunately I don’t think anyone is reprinting them anymore. It’s a Patriot edition with the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and letters from George Washington. Unfortunately it’s the 1599 version. I would love to have the 1560 but haven’t found an affordable one so I have to cross check with the online versions. Have to be honest even by 1599 there were changes...or at least by the publishers.
On a side note, I just was gifted from my family a KJV printed in 1815, written in the ledger it was bought by my family in 1899. No one else cared about it so of course I snatched it up.
Haven’t heard of Jewell Smith...I’ll look him up.
There is a whole, very interesting story behind the creation of the Geneva Bible. I've always wanted to get my hands on one.
VERY different approach from the royalism-tied King James (who was a devout Catholic, and in my opinion, royalism goes very much against our American Protestant/patriot roots, as Americans.)
I could way, way deep on this subject. One of my areas of scholarly research.
The Geneva Bible and the King James Bible are pretty much identical with differences here and there. The King James Bible is more for the Chruch of England (Which eventually found it outdated) and, the Geneva Bible is simply a protestant translation of the original scripts. The problem with both these Bibles is that they translated with very little correction, as English and Greek and Hebrew are very different languages, many translations are messed up.
This is why the Catholic Chruch continues to use Latin, not so you can't read it but, so it doesn't change. With the advent of the printing press, the first book published was a Catholic Latin Bible. The Chruch definitely started to open up after the Council of Trent. And honestly, the Chruch didn't change the Bible that much. The Vetus Latina was the first Latin version that was official by the Chruch in the 3rd century. It also takes the form of the first modern Bible since it actually had a set canon. The next official version was the Sixto-Clementine Vulgate which was still largely based on St. Jerome in 1592. For 400 years, that was the official Bible until the Nova Vulgata came into being under JP2. It simply rewrites from the original Hebrew and Greek texts. Some people debate this change as it diverts from Tradition. The Nova Vulgata still has yet to be confirmed by an ecumenical council, so it is still up for debate.
The American Roots are more Catholic than you think. One of our founding fathers where Catholic and, the idea for this style of Republic is also from people like St. Thomas Aquinas. Not to mention the idea that Rights are not given by the government but by God. America might say Protestant but, the wallpaper inside the house is all Catholic. The Catholic Chruch allows all kinds of governments, Aquinas stated which ones are bad, which ones are good. Monarchism and Republicanism are one of the good ones.
Ave Maria
William Tyndale.
I don't need to say any more.
What about Tyndale?
Just reading John 3:16 in the Geneva was amazing. Truly eye opening. Loveth = present tense. The details matter.
I’m a Blue Letter Bible guy: because of their tools, namely the interlinear functionality.
Translation-wise, I start with the KJV, move through the interlinear tools or check Young’s Literal Translation for some grammar usage.
I have a Christian Standard Bible.
Does anyone know of any concerns with this version?
It's not suitable for theological study, it's pretty loose and a bit simplified.
BUT: it is soooo readable you can't hate it. When I'm tired or in a paticularly difficult spot of the Bible (esp the epistles) or just want a Psalm for enjoyment, I use it and it's great. If I'm trying to check doctrine or studying I switch back to NASB.
It also has an AWESOME audio version. Because the language is easy, I can put it on while doing computer programming, etc. $10 on Tecarta.
Everyone should try to incorporate several translations into their routine. Some lean more towards a literal translation and others try to capture the meaning. Both lose a little of the original text because it's difficult to fully understand the original languages and because different translators value different aspects. Having a main Bible and skimming a different one helps you capture things that might be lost in the translation that you usually read.
Reading through all y’alls responses about which is your Bible translation/transliteration of choice makes me super happy. This is why TheDonald.win is the best.
Second this, while NASB is my study bible, it's OK to want something a bit easier or even just with more flowing language. Sometimes switching to the CSB which is pretty loose means I'll spend an hour with the Bible for enjoyment when I might have given up with the (better translated) NASB.
Yea, I am of this persuasion also, I read one bible after another and have since I was 16. This year I went completely through a very old 1611 KJV that I was blessed with, that took me a fair amount longer than usual, and am now half way through The Message. I have a collection and have dedicated 1 to 2 hours a day to just reading a bible my entire adult life. This thread is awesome to see, glad there are others out there with a desire for logos.
They will clean out those pesky verses saying women should not be in charge.
If you support a candidate who supports abortion then don't call yourself a Christian - because you're not.
Supporting abortion will get you a one way ticket to hell. You CANNOT have Christ in your heart and also support abortion.
With that said, that Church doesn't preach Christianity - it preaches Churchianity.
Absolutely. If you can't serve God and Mammon, you sure as hell can't serve God and Moloch.
Thank you, Pastor!
"But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea." - Matthew 18:6
If causing children to sin is reason for you to be drowned, what do you think the consequence is for murdering them?
Moloch needs food, badly!
Everything you need to know about Hellsong:
https://coercioncode.com/2019/09/24/satans-lear-hillsong-london-2019-easter-desecration/
Truly wicked stuff.
Been going on for 2000 years.
Meaning the Church has been full of non/weak Christians. Just read the epistles of Paul.
Lmao...
Hillsong is known for music, because they have really good sounding music. The only problem is that is the end of their substance. The sermons are all super feel-goody positivity wins garbage. It appeals to very new christians as it makes you feel like you finally found a place of unending positivity.
I visited Hillsong NY in Brooklyn and it was the exact same experience as portrayed in Samantha B's (I know, terrible person) show called The Detour. They didn't have to change anything to make Christianity look dumb as they did a recreation of a Hillsong service. Real Christianity is not Hillsong.
I finally got to go to a Hillsong service in Amsterdam. It was good music and a shallow message as I had expected.
Used to love Hillsong United in high school. Non-denominational protestant worship groups are mostly a clique of fashionable popular people stroking their egos. It's gross.
With Jesus there is no left or right, only him.
There are Christians that lean left or right, as there are godless satanists that lean left or right. Unfortunately the latter seem to be more predominantly in the left as shown by their disdain for Jesus.
May God bless and protect those that serve him against evil.
Currently the rising star of the Catholic Church is Bishop Barron. He is definitely moving them towards that path.
Cardinal Sarah is the hero we need.
Dont' forget Bishop Schneider. He's a fantastic one as well.
I listened to Barron during the start of the pandemic then I heard him throw the parishioners under the bus when they rose to defend their churches from far-left attacks.
He would have been alright as your milque-toast church leader during milque-toast times. These are not those times.
Depends on what circles you travel in. A fair number of my Catholic friends are hoping Cardinal Sarah will be the next Pope, take the name Pius XIII, and urge everyone to switch back to Mass in the Extraordinary Form (a.k.a. the Traditional Latin Mass).
Keep in mind that Bishop Barron is also the auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles -- he can't really afford to rock the boat out there because it's a leftist hellhole.
They're not compromising the doctrine, they're failing to teach it entirely.
The boomers on the parish councils constantly harping on pastors don't give a crap about what the young people want. Older folks think the Second Vatican Council was the greatest thing ever and want Masses with friggin' tambourines and "uplifting" music, and they wonder why nobody in the 18-40 age range is in the pews.
You know where all the young Catholics are? AT THE LATIN MASS. We don't want tambourines, we want organ music and chanting and incense. We want solemnity, and penitence, and reverence for the Real Presence in the Eucharist, and sound doctrine. We want priests who reject modernism and aren't afraid to condemn it loudly and unambiguously from the pulpit.
Young Catholics want a Church that lifts them out of the cesspit of degeneracy that is modern secular society and raises them to the Lord our God.
And the priests you see nowadays coming out of the seminaries have exactly that same mindset.
In 20 years your average parish priest is going to make Pope Benedict XVI look like a mild-mannered moderate.
I'm not a Catholic, not even a Christian of any kind, but your post gives me some hope for the future,
Take heart, friend, and whatever you do, don't swallow that black pill!
I’ve been doing Latin low mass. Amazingly solemn
I don't think the Latin Mass is the answer, all this corruption happened while the Latin Mass was still going on. That being said, the Latin Mass is much less acceptable to LItergical Abuse than the New Order Mass.
I pray that we maybe are able to interpret Vatican II with Tradition and not some radical modernist ideas. I do also pray for the Council that the Pope will eventually call that clears away the clouds surrounding the Vatican. And brings forth a New Light from the Vatican.
I'm not advocating for doing away with Ordinary Form, but I absolutely agree that the Extraordinary Form Mass is far less susceptible to irreverent shenanigans.
There definitely do need to be some additional guidelines laid down on what is and is not acceptable at Ordinary Form Masses.
I agree, honestly though, I would call a Council together to sort this thing. We can't go back and, we can't stay in the present. The Catholic Church must push on to the future, hopefully to the Reign of Mary.
What did Benedict XVI believe?
I’m not a Catholic so please explain.
The brief overview is that Pope Benedict XVI was widely regarded by snivelling liberals as being even more conservative on social issues and more in favor of restoring older traditions than his predecessor, Pope St. John Paul the Great.
Pope Benedict XVI was the one who permitted priests to celebrate the Latin Mass without first having to obtain permission from their Bishop. He also spent a fair amount of his pontificate railing against moral relativism, which is the foundation for all the postmodernist intellectual garbage that the left uses in an attempt to justify their revolting iniquities.
Convert my dude, I really do want you to feel the same love that we in the Catholic Chruch feel. However, Protestant Denominations simply go all over the place. You need a Rock.
This is why I attend mass on Christian holidays. Same reason.
I'm not much a fan of churchianity.
Barron isn't as bad as the likes of Martin, he actually does a lot of good work. The problem is that he has some troubling non-traditional views.
What are the views about those bishops Barron & Martin that you don’t like u/BadManOrange?
That we have a reasonable hope that ALL men are saved.
This is false, our Lord said that it would have been better off if Judas hadn't been born. More recently, Our Lady of Fatima also showed the children of Souls falling into hell, most because of sins of the flesh.
Many souls take the highway to hell, only a few climb the stairway to Heaven.
What are the children of souls, and do you believe in faith alone salvation or faith + works?
I'm unsure what you mean by children of souls. I have never heard the phrase. So please forgive me as I cannot answer the question.
I can answer the Faith alone question tho. Catholics believe we are saved by Faith alone. The question is how do we show our Faith to God, we do so by works. Christ stated so in Mattew 21:28-31
28 'What is your opinion? A man had two sons. He went and said to the first, "My boy, go and work in the vineyard today."
29 He answered, "I will not go," but afterwards thought better of it and went.
30 The man then went and said the same thing to the second who answered, "Certainly, sir," but did not go.
31 Which of the two did the father's will?' They said, 'The first.' Jesus said to them, 'In truth I tell you, tax collectors and prostitutes are making their way into the kingdom of God before you.
While the First son lacked faith, he changed his mind and did his work. The other son was faithful but didn't do his work. Who was more Faithful to his father? The first son.
James says Faith WITHOUT works is dead Chapter 2:26.
26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
Most Jews understood this, which is why most Apostles didn't bring this up, of course, you need to work in the Faith to be saved. And it's not like James was the only one who believed this, otherwise, the other Apostles would of spoken out against the heresy. It is to our knowledge that the Apostles agree with each other and, if they didn't they would have a council to decide it, like the Council of Jerusalem.
The Apostles had to agree with each other because it is through them, that we know Christ. Christ did not write any books on Earth. It was up to them to share His word.
I'm not a Christian anymore but I respect and enjoy the texts more than most church goers. Most are nominal, in name only.
Slowly? The mainstream mega-churches have been cucked by feminism for decades.
It's not uncommon at all to find gaggles of women being gossips and busybodies IN THE CHURCH, and no one in authority will say a word. Every single biblical prohibition against women being anti-social, has been removed from doctrine.
Truth is, outside a few mostly rural holdouts, all of the churches have completely abandoned the Bible as a basis for their teachings.
There was a Christian women's conference some years back with Jesus in drag, and featured the naked cowboy.
For real.
That’s kinda gross ngl
Now I know why muslims restrict women from mosques lol.
I got slowly pushed out of church over the same gossip.
Driving men, especially unmarried men, out of the churches was one of the first things Marxists focused on in this country. They accomplished their mission.
Hillsong is lost.
Don't use their music. It's almost heretical. Old gospel hymns are better. (And I'm a METAL musician. Dimebag is probably my favorite guitarist ever. So...)
You can't beat this - Guy Penrod and the Gaithers singing 'The Old Rugged Cross Made the Difference.'
May I recommend Petra (80,s/90’s Christian) if you haven’t heard them.
I grew up with that music.
And the Maranatha/Hosanna music for P&W. All of that is very good stuff.
I still really dig old hymns, though. Southern gospel FTW.
Yngwie Bachsteen.
Really nice! Thanks for the link. I remember him now. Penrod performed at the Trump inaugural ball in Florida.
Dude is an amazing singer.
Pleasure.
Gets old quick.
What's your point?
Most worship sessions consist of a bunch of sheep reciting mantras that do more harm than good.
If it sounds like Cardi B or Post Malone could be singing it, it's not worship music
But hey, it's okay to align with the candidate that abort babies and say that men can be women and have babies. So many hoity toity pastors these days. You would think they would appreciate the bully who is fighting for life and liberty on behalf of all of us. I have a couple of church-going friends who are Democrats and will be voting for Biden. If TDS was on a scale of 1-100, they are level 99. Can't have a pleasant conversation with them over lunch without them bashing POTUS every time.
Trump is a bully but he’s the American people’s bully and he’s fighting for us each and every day. He’s kicking our enemies’ asses. Biden is weak and only fights for himself and the deep state.
This church generation is definitely the Laodiceans.
The church of ease.
Most social marketing folks are radical Marxists.
That lack creativity
Hillsong is shitty btw, they are conformist and just want the money
I passed this Church in New York the other day on the way to visit my in-laws. It's Dutch Reformed, and in a wealthy white neighborhood.
https://westendchurch.org/
The front of the church is covered with two giant banners : one says "Black Lives Matter" and the other "Unlearn White Supremacy".
Yup. It's all over their Facebook. Huge banners. https://www.facebook.com/WestEndChurchNYC/ Wow. "Protect Trans Kids". "Unlearn White Supremacy" They're very proud of these signs too. Here is their head reverend. No wonder. https://twitter.com/nytimesvows/status/1170351073611173890
Thanks for finding that. I'm a Jew - but I never heard that there is anything in the New Testament that says "White People Suck" or anything like that.
Pretty sure that Jesus wasn't into bullying white people - but feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
Jesus overthrew the money changers in the temple. He literally made a whip to drive them out. (They were profiting off of the sales of temple sacrifices and offerings.)
If he bullied anyone, it was his fellow jews! (The elites, really.)
Unfortunately, yes they are. They have beautiful music but the last several years the lyrics have gone full hedonism. Really a shame, but that is how Satan works.
can you give an example?
enter text
I have wrestled with this for a while. In fact I felt like I was in crisis because I had watched a video on YouTube about Prosperity Gospel. I watched a Netflix show documentary about it as well. I turned to God and asked Him if I am being led astray by listening to Hillsong and Bethel music.
I do not listen to their sermons, I only listen to worship music on Spotify, no other genre.. I feel the Holy Spirit surround me when I am worshipping. If the music brings people to God I do not think it is the issue. God uses evil for good.
I have read the lyrics of the songs and have not come across blasphemy or heresy in the lyrics. I asked if there are examples because I want to make sure that I am not offending God.
Totally understand. Not a salvation issue at all. I don't listen to lyrics much anyway - but having them up on a screen in your church is different, imo - higher standard.
I think you can sing just about any song to Christ if your heart is right and you are singing to Him. David made a fool of himself to the ridicule of others - but God saw into his heart and loved David as a man after His heart.
"Reckless love of god". I'm sure you know the song.
Reckless means to act carelessly without considering the consequences. Is God reckless? Ever, in any way?
You are right
Why do you call them Hillarysong?
Ah the old honest opinion comes out because you forgot to swap accounts.
Hillsong has been on the satan watch by beleivers for sometime now. They are not friends of God
Amen to this.
I don't listen to that crap. Rather listen to Steely Dan or Conway Twitty. At least I KNOW what that stuff is!
Hillsong is a cult in my eyes. They have their music and own TV station. I get the heebee jeebees from them.
They are a cult for sure. I was invited there last year and declined after some research. Here are some creepy links about this pedo bunch: https://culteducation.com/group/971-hillsong-church.html
The Pastor of Hillsong wrote a book called YOU NEED MORE MONEY! Textbook example of a Prosperity Gospel church. Also, look into the rampant proven pedophilia of the founder of the church (the father of the current pastor). The current pastor excuses the pedophilia. Bogus church.
Yeah, look up Frank Houston's pedophilia problem and what Brian Houston said about it.
I'm glad I don't have to feel entirely alone when it comes to this. I attend a Pentecostal church (PAOC) but have become estranged with a lot of Pentecostal doctrine and the accompanying theatrics. I personally experienced marginalization trying to attend other churches because I'm introverted and don't meet God by waving flags, dancing and waving hands or rambling on in tongues. Now I don't disagree that some people meet God this way, but it shouldn't be the general barometer of a person's faith or belief. So much of this modern worship is just repetitive and meant to encourage those spiritual highs. We need to be listening and attentive to the words of God and not chase the spiritual high. I don't mind some of Hillsong's music but I definitely find old hymns, psalms and even older CCM to speak to me more than the repetition. I mean, jeepers, some of the Youtube videos associated with this music have in brackets (spontaneous worship) like it's catering to some individual need to "get into that headspace." Listen to God. Pray and read your bible. Do not get caught up in the world's ideals or religious institutionalism. God and His word are the final answer.
100% it shouldn't be the reason you attend church or want to enter into worship.
God is logical, not emotional. It's Satan that tempts you with feelings, whether you are in a church or somewhere else.
You're right. The Word was made flesh.
That's Logos, not Pathos or even Ethos.
He's both, look at the Psalms, but sound teaching is not optional.
You'll enjoy Jacob Prasch, I think.
If it's compelled, it's not the Holy Spirit. Best to find a church that has good teaching or prayer. You can (should, even) still be friends with the Pentecostals.
IMO most modern worship songs are just that; they might be OK for worship, but they don't teach you anything at all. The best hymns boil a great lessom down into a memorable tune. Amazing Grace, Take it to The Lord in Prayer, etc, etc, etc. And TBH the tunes and lyrics of the old hymns are way more fun to sing. Modern church music could have been Keith Green, but instead it ended up largely being repetitive soft rock chanting.
Hillsong Church will be providing abortions in their chapel soon
Marxism is a mask for authoritarianism. The Church has 2000+ years experience with authoritarianism.
I am a staff member for a large baptist church, we have 5 campuses and a large online platform. I say that to say this - most of our staff are young crowd who believe wholly in the doctrine but have been at COLLEGE for 4 to 6 years. They get the same foolishness that other college students get, it takes years to wear them down into being less idealistic and more realistic. Thus this kind of tweet. The older staff or pastors are rarely open about their politics but you get a whiff of it when they talk about how disapppointing the mill. Gen is to them.
My dad was an Episcopalian minister but became dissolutioned with its liberalism.... found the Orthodox Church in America (oca.org) that still stands for beautuful traditional biblical belief and worship!
I have doctrinal issues with pretty much all mainline denominations, but I don't hate on the Orthodox.
Fascinating approach to biblical revelation. Plus, they (mostly) remained conservative.
What do Episcopalians believe about salvation (how to get saved, do they believe in faith alone or faith + works, do they believe in once saved always saved)? u/littlebridges
Trust in and study the Bible and Christ. Don't get assurance from church leaders. They're human and will fail you.
Benny Hinn says hi.
Scammer.
Liberal church is full of liberals imagine my shock.
I'm sorry, I know a lot of people even on .WIN feel like the president came across as a bully but, I am with Don Jr. on this. He was on Hannity after the debate and said (paraphrased) that "of course he seems defensive and angry, he has been forced to fight against the media every day he's been in office. You don't just turn that off" and, I'm sorry. If someone is straight-up lying like Biden was, I'd have to interrupt them, too.
The reason he comes across as a bully is because dementia joe is slow.
Too bad joe isn’t a women. People don’t like weak men.
I used to go to Hillsong, the church is WOKE galore, stay well clear. Just go to your local church.
Hillsong sees LGBTQ as a sin AND they’re woke? That’s 2 strikes for me.
Their worried about losing tax exempt status. They don’t give 2 shits about being non-partisan.
Infiltration. They know people will be tolerant of their shit, so they go in and try to sway people to their side. The far leftists have infiltrated almost every major social group. The church is of course one of them.
I'm not talking about the normal, decent kind of democrat who will have a conversation with you and listen to what you have to say. I mean the crazy, intolerant, racist kind who only want to push their agenda.
Just because a place name has the word "church" in it, it doesn't mean that there are Christians there.
It’s true. I’m shocked how many people in my church fall for the democrat lies and think they’re the more compassionate party
It's been happening a while. Good news is evil bishops popes and churches have existed since the beginning, and it doesn't stop the believers. They always get ousted in time
If only there was a book or something that taught respect for everyone. Hmmm.
Easy there with the Catholic bashing.
I was being facetious. In my experience, Catholics are the least likely to have read the Bible.
Kind of wished there was a way within government to remove critical race and gender theories and other wokery from religion that doesn’t shake up the freedom of religion clause in the constitution and separation of church and state.
No, I think I'd be OK with it
Pm me the idea, i am intrigued.
Many, many church leaders came out as marxists during the Floyd overdose. I was ripped on by many for speaking out against white privilege.
The global elites have been working to infiltrate the churches and Christianity with liberal/marxist ideology for centuries. Jay Dyer does a good piece on going over the subject for those that are interested (starts at about 2:28:00):
https://2020electioncenter.com/watch?id=5f6a88dccafd76087e5fca4d
Same with Churchome in Washington State. Hyper-woke, self-hating whites from the uppercrest talking about how muh white supremacy is contrary to the ideals of the church. The reactions from these people are both hilarious and disgusting.
True sheep. Incapable of rational discourse...yet oh so willing to absolutely shit on "vile trump supporters".
Coastal elitism is HUGE.
https://churchome.org
Hillsong are heretics. No room for equivocation. They do not teach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Hm, no wonder gospel music has recently been far less interesting and desirable to listen to.
Also no Christian could ever support the globalist, communist, baby killing left.
I can't speak to this church but I know most of the churches around me hire part time "social media consultants" to manage their social media accounts, and the hours and pay usually limits applicants to lefty college students that just want to get their parents off their backs about it being time to find a job.
Alpha courses says hi.
It's about "growth", not discipleship. Unbiblical.
I hate to admit it, but my Mother specifically goes to a church rn because it's all leftists politically. She's proud that they are pro-choice and one of their deacon's recent came out as a women (like a 60 yo male) and they all hate Trump, love ofaggot (during the primaries they wanted bootyplug). It's really sad but there's nothing I can do, she's brainwashed by the m5m
More info about the infiltration here: https://enemieswithinthechurch.com
As a huge Hillsong fan, I am not happy. Churches need to stay out of politics. It’s great for individual Christians to be politically active, but religious organizations do not know squat about politics- they need to stick to religion.
I listen to a ton of Hillsong though.
How about sin? Can churches teach against sin? Say, homosexuality and abortion? Isn't that politics today?