I try to counter my family's anti-trump narratives by giving the other side, without going too far and "revealing my power level" so to say
My family falls for every fake news narrative. But when they talk about it I give the other side.
Example:
"Trump is locking mexican kids in cages"
A: Actually, no, Obama did the same thing, it's just news making a fake controversy against Trump.
Illegals often cross into USA with kids that aren't even theirs, and they have no identification, so the border officers need to actually find out who the child really belongs to and if it's being trafficked or not.
And if that doesn't work, I look them straight in the face and say,"You just want illegals here so that you don't have to hire Black people." And when they protest, call them "racist."
They surround themselves in a house of cards of lies. Long past time they faced the truth.
I use to clean bathrooms at Burger King, there is no job that Americans won't do as long as it pays minimum wage.
Why are we allowing some industries to pay less than minimum wage or skirt tax laws and then claiming Americans won't do that job.
Isn't it strange how you never hear about conservatives kicking their families out of their lives for being liberal? It's almost like the side that claims the moral high ground for their "tolerance" are actually all a bunch of lying assholes.
One side hears a different opinion from their family and shuts them out of their lives.
The other side hears a different opinion from their family and wants to discuss the topic.
Which of these two sides are the fascist dictators again?
I admit I've recently thought about it. Between my brother who is "apolitical" in that he doesn't research anything but is anti-Trump because of "character", and another whose politics I never knew but now he brings up stupid shit when I email him something positive about Trump like Middle East Peace, and the fact that I actually find them and their families boring or annoying, I have definitely thought I could kick them to the curb. I probably won't, though. Tensions are high right now and will calm down...by March or so, I hope.
Gentle laughter followed by a concise demonstration of their hypocrisy or God-awful logical failures is generally the best recourse. They aren't interested in calm, reasoned debate. They are controlled by their emotions. Demonstrate to them that you are confident and happy and that you see them as having the same intellectual prowess as a first-grader and they will hit an emotional fork where they either accept that maybe they have been wrong or double down.
If they double down, you're not any worse off than you were and someone whose response to being utterly destroyed in a simple debate is to rebound and reject the victor is never going to be convinced. If they do actually reconsider, you've won and it cost you nothing and now you've gained an ally.
People make a huge mistake debating leftists. Their positions require a carefully constructed false reality in order to make sense. Ours are just common sense. It's why the left can't meme. Don't debate them. In order to do so you must first accept their premise, which means you've already lost. Just laugh at them, say simple degrading things like "You actually believe that? Wait, let me guess: CNN told you it was true? That's adorable." Then refuse to discuss it further.
Extra points if you can talk down to them with specifics. I absolutely shut all 6 of my liberal friends down the other day very simply: "When you can tell me what Joseph Mifsud, Alexander Downer, George Papadopolous, Bill Priestap, and Azra Turk have in common, we can have a discussion. Until then, you don't know enough about the subject to talk about it and I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you."
They clearly had no idea who any of those people were except PapaD and what they knew about him was wrong, as I quickly pointed out to them. It didn't change their minds, but they stopped talking about it because they were embarrassed that they knew so little about it.
Wear your MAGA hat proudly and free yourself of the fear of what people might think. I’ve lost friends of 25+ years. I’ve got family that won’t talk to me.. guess what... I don’t give a fuck!
That's very disappointing. Luckily, my few long-time friends are pretty chill and we don't have to talk politics at all. I actually found out a lot of people are still pretty apolitical which is honestly fine with me. Then there are those pesky libertarians who still vote libertarian - ugh.
Then you have no obligation to drop it either. If they won't respect you and your opinions, they have no reasonable expectation that you respect them and theirs. I say "reasonable" using the non-liberal standard, because liberals are anything BUT reasonable.
Yeah, the attempt to convert because who wouldn't change their minds with facts and logic - sadly, facts and logic if they don't conform to their long-established beliefs, is hard. Maybe just be content you've said your piece.
I'm with you. I have zero tolerance at this point. As far as I'm concerned, it is unacceptable that as a nation, we are pandering to the inexcusably ignorant.
The time for silence is long over friend. That’s what the Left wants, us to be cowering in silence so no alternate opinions come out against the Liberal Establishment Doctrine.
Speak your mind, be respectful if possible, and let the cards fall where they may. We will NEVER wake enough people up if we stay silent
Remember, fundamentally you're dealing with emotional never ending teenagers in regards to politics. Now, these are not your teens, so you can't just shut them down, though you'd like to. You have to handle it with composure and intellect and pick and choose when to point out concerns or facts.
Don't push too hard, because like teenagers they will turn on you, sometimes harshly. Unless that's what you want. It's not rational. Teenagers often aren't rational. But just be calm and consistent and pick your time to drop your thoughts.
I hear you, my parents are very old school conservatives. Up until this year my siblings never discussed politics. Then this year, they're all pro BLM and Antifa is just an idea on their social media. I shared cited sources and quotes why these groups were not the best to support. They just rolled their eyes and acted like I was dumb. Its frustrating.
When they do that shit flip the fucking table and call them communist traitors. Go full 1776 on their asses and kick them out of your life. Tell them you'll not have communists in your house or family. It sounds extreme but shaming them is the only way. Best not to have traitors in your midst in the coming storm.
Don’t worry I feel the same way you do. All my friends are either apolitical or liberal. And my son goes to a Catholic school and his friends parents can’t stop echoing “kids in cages” when he’s done the MOST towards abortion. My Facebook has turned into me just blasting everyone at every chance I get. Fuck it.
I'm with ya, man! Fuck that staying silent shit! They don't get to inject their politics and views, not to mention their sexual organs into our faces every chance they get without a little push-back! fuck them!
Same with my family. As soon as i started showing them what antifa was all about in a group chat, my sister sent me a text on the side getting mad about "harassing everyone with conspiracy theories" when it was literally video footage of blm and antifa. So many people are so deeply entrenched with their programming that the Dems are always the good guys no matter what and the Republicans are always the evil cartoon villians no matter what. When you show them anything that could chip away at that conditioning, they will attack you instead and try to silence you instead of confronting the dissonance your information has caused them. It's a very slow process for people who aren't interested in seeing the truth.
Lol I can beat that... My sister says it's actually right wingers doing all the rioting across the country for months. Right wingers killed that trump supporter to pin it on the left. Its all RIGHT WING FALSE FLAGS REEEEEEEE!
That was, of course, after she claimed it wasn't even happening and I had to prove it was.
Must be the talking point of the left. A friend in Washington state told me the same story. I laughed and said I don’t know anything about that but can send videos of BLM and Antifa burning and looting and attacking police here.
While most of my fam is conservative, we have a few cousins who are one brick shy of a load, so to speak. Severe TDS. We have been told to never speak politics when they’re around-to keep the peace. It’s maddening
Everyone gets to have an opinion or no one gets to. Conservatives/libertarians got used to "taking the high road" and not causing waves, and where did that get us? Liberals are free to be out with their opinions on the job and in their communities. Conservatives/libertarians have to shut up and keep their heads down for fear of losing their jobs or being ostracized. It has got to stop.
Never stay silent and throw their horse shit in their pinko faces. Get fucking mad at them over killing children. Spit on their feet for never ending wars and being globohomo shills. Kick them out of your life for betraying their people. Point to the hundreds of leftist terror attacks and ask if they support it? Put them on the spot. Get in their face. The time for peaceful conversation is over. They're not interested in anything but your compliance.
The only reason we have a govt is because we consent to one. Why? For the purpose of protecting our God given inalienable rights. Therefore, WE THE PEOPLE must govern our government. How can we ever do that unless we share our thoughts, ideas, opinions, differences, & experiences with one another? Unless we discuss our govt with one another, it rules us; we do not rule it.
My advice is to maintain civility on both sides. This means don't be a jerk, but try to anticipate their reaction before stating a fact. It's better to express the truth in a manner they'll listen to rather than, "CNN is a bunch of lying jackals who support a devil-sex-glass enthusiast."
After this election they will be told to stand aside, and probably forget most of what they were taught over the past few months.
I was told to keep silent about 9/11. I've never stopped. Fuck that. Who planted the explosives in WTC7 and why was that controlled demolition on 9/11 never covered in the congressional investigation? Inside job, that's why.
Those are the same people Trump is up against. They'll do anything to stop him.
So, fuck these globalist commie Marxist fascists and speak your mind.
I'm not you. But if saving your family the shame of become the next Nazi sympathizers means a temporary war be caught then I, personally if in your situation, would do it.
Why should YOU have to but not THEM? Oh, right. Because lefties are emotionally inept toddlers who throw tantrums when they don’t like something.
You could always tell them “Wow, I heard Democrats/leftists were closed-minded bigots unable to hold civil political conversations but I didn’t believe it until now! I would never do that!” to watch their brains fritz out trying to process being called a bigot and realizing they’re the sensitive bad guy in the situation.
I suppose there's nothing wrong with everyone keeping their opinions to themselves. I have that agreement with several friends. Like children, sometimes they cannot help themselves, so they have a hard time with it, but mostly it works.
I try to counter my family's anti-trump narratives by giving the other side, without going too far and "revealing my power level" so to say
My family falls for every fake news narrative. But when they talk about it I give the other side.
Example:
"Trump is locking mexican kids in cages"
A: Actually, no, Obama did the same thing, it's just news making a fake controversy against Trump. Illegals often cross into USA with kids that aren't even theirs, and they have no identification, so the border officers need to actually find out who the child really belongs to and if it's being trafficked or not.
Here's another example :
"Undocumented immigrants are just doing jobs Americans won't do"
Actually, back in the 1970s Americans used to do many FORMERLY middle class jobs which are now dirt wage jobs done by illegals.
Landscaper, meat processing, restaurant work, etc. An increase in worker supply causes a decrease in wages.
And if that doesn't work, I look them straight in the face and say,"You just want illegals here so that you don't have to hire Black people." And when they protest, call them "racist."
They surround themselves in a house of cards of lies. Long past time they faced the truth.
because that is the truth
That's literally true.
I use to clean bathrooms at Burger King, there is no job that Americans won't do as long as it pays minimum wage. Why are we allowing some industries to pay less than minimum wage or skirt tax laws and then claiming Americans won't do that job.
I've stopped using the word ACkhTuAlLy since the meme
That's a good, to the point, counter argument. Must remember that one. Thank you.
biden is fucking them. alone with bill baby
Good, you shouldn’t keep silent. Don’t be afraid to voice your opinion, you have the same right they do to.
Isn't it strange how you never hear about conservatives kicking their families out of their lives for being liberal? It's almost like the side that claims the moral high ground for their "tolerance" are actually all a bunch of lying assholes.
One side hears a different opinion from their family and shuts them out of their lives.
The other side hears a different opinion from their family and wants to discuss the topic.
Which of these two sides are the fascist dictators again?
I admit I've recently thought about it. Between my brother who is "apolitical" in that he doesn't research anything but is anti-Trump because of "character", and another whose politics I never knew but now he brings up stupid shit when I email him something positive about Trump like Middle East Peace, and the fact that I actually find them and their families boring or annoying, I have definitely thought I could kick them to the curb. I probably won't, though. Tensions are high right now and will calm down...by March or so, I hope.
Don't shut them out. Just laugh at them for being stupid. You can still love these idiots. They're family.
What thoughtful, light-hearted advice. I know I could have WAY worse siblings, so I guess I'll keep them :)
Are they silent about their beliefs?
If not, do not be silent. Challenge them all at every turn. I have. My family has not been torn apart
Gentle laughter followed by a concise demonstration of their hypocrisy or God-awful logical failures is generally the best recourse. They aren't interested in calm, reasoned debate. They are controlled by their emotions. Demonstrate to them that you are confident and happy and that you see them as having the same intellectual prowess as a first-grader and they will hit an emotional fork where they either accept that maybe they have been wrong or double down.
If they double down, you're not any worse off than you were and someone whose response to being utterly destroyed in a simple debate is to rebound and reject the victor is never going to be convinced. If they do actually reconsider, you've won and it cost you nothing and now you've gained an ally.
People make a huge mistake debating leftists. Their positions require a carefully constructed false reality in order to make sense. Ours are just common sense. It's why the left can't meme. Don't debate them. In order to do so you must first accept their premise, which means you've already lost. Just laugh at them, say simple degrading things like "You actually believe that? Wait, let me guess: CNN told you it was true? That's adorable." Then refuse to discuss it further.
Extra points if you can talk down to them with specifics. I absolutely shut all 6 of my liberal friends down the other day very simply: "When you can tell me what Joseph Mifsud, Alexander Downer, George Papadopolous, Bill Priestap, and Azra Turk have in common, we can have a discussion. Until then, you don't know enough about the subject to talk about it and I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you."
They clearly had no idea who any of those people were except PapaD and what they knew about him was wrong, as I quickly pointed out to them. It didn't change their minds, but they stopped talking about it because they were embarrassed that they knew so little about it.
Don't debate. Demonstrate your superiority and walk away.
Whenever someone tells me I have to wear a mask I say no, I don’t join cults, and walk away.
Wear your MAGA hat proudly and free yourself of the fear of what people might think. I’ve lost friends of 25+ years. I’ve got family that won’t talk to me.. guess what... I don’t give a fuck!
That's very disappointing. Luckily, my few long-time friends are pretty chill and we don't have to talk politics at all. I actually found out a lot of people are still pretty apolitical which is honestly fine with me. Then there are those pesky libertarians who still vote libertarian - ugh.
Anti-liberty cuckolds gonna cuck. F, my friend.
I suppose the deal could be that you stay silent if they do.
Politics, sexuality and religion used to be no go subjects back in my day. Stopped a lot of arguments.
This. I have the same arrangement with my lefty MiL, and it's worked pretty well for quite some time now.
Then you have no obligation to drop it either. If they won't respect you and your opinions, they have no reasonable expectation that you respect them and theirs. I say "reasonable" using the non-liberal standard, because liberals are anything BUT reasonable.
How old are you?
They've probably already cut you out of the will so what do you have to lose? 😉
Yeah, the attempt to convert because who wouldn't change their minds with facts and logic - sadly, facts and logic if they don't conform to their long-established beliefs, is hard. Maybe just be content you've said your piece.
I'm with you. I have zero tolerance at this point. As far as I'm concerned, it is unacceptable that as a nation, we are pandering to the inexcusably ignorant.
Yep, abuser types want to silence and isolate their victims.
Just let them know, you understand their point of view, which is why you are still voting for Trump.
Oh snap.
Look them straight in the eye and tell them "I love you but you need to stop being a filthy commie."
The moment someone ‘told’ me to be silent I would point out that that is why I abhor ‘liberal’ tyrants.
Start making the rules and stop following theirs. They aren't the rule makers, even though they act like it.
Tell your woke family that you’re not gonna take it anymore and that you will freely exercise your freedom of speech.
“I’m mad as hell! And I’m not gonna take it anymore!!”
FUCK 'EM
turn the breakers off at their houses
turn the gas off at first valve entering the house
disconnect their car batteries
unscrew the coaxial cable bringing in the internet
ask them how the green new deal is working out
The time for silence is long over friend. That’s what the Left wants, us to be cowering in silence so no alternate opinions come out against the Liberal Establishment Doctrine.
Speak your mind, be respectful if possible, and let the cards fall where they may. We will NEVER wake enough people up if we stay silent
Remember, fundamentally you're dealing with emotional never ending teenagers in regards to politics. Now, these are not your teens, so you can't just shut them down, though you'd like to. You have to handle it with composure and intellect and pick and choose when to point out concerns or facts.
Don't push too hard, because like teenagers they will turn on you, sometimes harshly. Unless that's what you want. It's not rational. Teenagers often aren't rational. But just be calm and consistent and pick your time to drop your thoughts.
I hear you, my parents are very old school conservatives. Up until this year my siblings never discussed politics. Then this year, they're all pro BLM and Antifa is just an idea on their social media. I shared cited sources and quotes why these groups were not the best to support. They just rolled their eyes and acted like I was dumb. Its frustrating.
When they do that shit flip the fucking table and call them communist traitors. Go full 1776 on their asses and kick them out of your life. Tell them you'll not have communists in your house or family. It sounds extreme but shaming them is the only way. Best not to have traitors in your midst in the coming storm.
Don’t worry I feel the same way you do. All my friends are either apolitical or liberal. And my son goes to a Catholic school and his friends parents can’t stop echoing “kids in cages” when he’s done the MOST towards abortion. My Facebook has turned into me just blasting everyone at every chance I get. Fuck it.
Do you have a moment to talk about the First Amendment?
Wear Maga gear
Always speak the truth. Never succumb to hate.
You’re awesome!!!!!!!!! They don’t know that you’re also speaking up...for their benefit too. Some day when the truth comes out they will thank you.
I'm with ya, man! Fuck that staying silent shit! They don't get to inject their politics and views, not to mention their sexual organs into our faces every chance they get without a little push-back! fuck them!
if they love and respect you as a person, then they should allow you to speak.
Same with my family. As soon as i started showing them what antifa was all about in a group chat, my sister sent me a text on the side getting mad about "harassing everyone with conspiracy theories" when it was literally video footage of blm and antifa. So many people are so deeply entrenched with their programming that the Dems are always the good guys no matter what and the Republicans are always the evil cartoon villians no matter what. When you show them anything that could chip away at that conditioning, they will attack you instead and try to silence you instead of confronting the dissonance your information has caused them. It's a very slow process for people who aren't interested in seeing the truth.
When they bring up conspiracy theories, I remind them they accepted the conspiracy theory that Trump was a Russian agent.
Lol I can beat that... My sister says it's actually right wingers doing all the rioting across the country for months. Right wingers killed that trump supporter to pin it on the left. Its all RIGHT WING FALSE FLAGS REEEEEEEE!
That was, of course, after she claimed it wasn't even happening and I had to prove it was.
Must be the talking point of the left. A friend in Washington state told me the same story. I laughed and said I don’t know anything about that but can send videos of BLM and Antifa burning and looting and attacking police here.
They act like fucking robots. They're literally the NPC meme.
It's my sister so I lover but damn...
While most of my fam is conservative, we have a few cousins who are one brick shy of a load, so to speak. Severe TDS. We have been told to never speak politics when they’re around-to keep the peace. It’s maddening
put on a MAGA hat for breakfast and watch their faces melt
Fuck your baby killing family pede.
Good for you
Everyone gets to have an opinion or no one gets to. Conservatives/libertarians got used to "taking the high road" and not causing waves, and where did that get us? Liberals are free to be out with their opinions on the job and in their communities. Conservatives/libertarians have to shut up and keep their heads down for fear of losing their jobs or being ostracized. It has got to stop.
Never stay silent and throw their horse shit in their pinko faces. Get fucking mad at them over killing children. Spit on their feet for never ending wars and being globohomo shills. Kick them out of your life for betraying their people. Point to the hundreds of leftist terror attacks and ask if they support it? Put them on the spot. Get in their face. The time for peaceful conversation is over. They're not interested in anything but your compliance.
Never back down. Even in the face of Armageddon.
The only reason we have a govt is because we consent to one. Why? For the purpose of protecting our God given inalienable rights. Therefore, WE THE PEOPLE must govern our government. How can we ever do that unless we share our thoughts, ideas, opinions, differences, & experiences with one another? Unless we discuss our govt with one another, it rules us; we do not rule it.
My advice is to maintain civility on both sides. This means don't be a jerk, but try to anticipate their reaction before stating a fact. It's better to express the truth in a manner they'll listen to rather than, "CNN is a bunch of lying jackals who support a devil-sex-glass enthusiast."
After this election they will be told to stand aside, and probably forget most of what they were taught over the past few months.
I'm getting sick of it as well. Almost everyone in my family has TDS. It makes me not want to be around them anymore.
I was told to keep silent about 9/11. I've never stopped. Fuck that. Who planted the explosives in WTC7 and why was that controlled demolition on 9/11 never covered in the congressional investigation? Inside job, that's why.
Those are the same people Trump is up against. They'll do anything to stop him.
So, fuck these globalist commie Marxist fascists and speak your mind.
I'm not you. But if saving your family the shame of become the next Nazi sympathizers means a temporary war be caught then I, personally if in your situation, would do it.
Preach it. Make them embrace their stupidity. There are better families for you out here.
right on.
Show them all the video of Biden pinching the 8 year old girls nipple.
If they still support Biden, you have a warped family
You sound like you would enjoy this! https://youtu.be/KYX6AvUaDM8
Thats how totalitarianism works. Shut up and toe the line or we will hurt you.
Why should YOU have to but not THEM? Oh, right. Because lefties are emotionally inept toddlers who throw tantrums when they don’t like something.
You could always tell them “Wow, I heard Democrats/leftists were closed-minded bigots unable to hold civil political conversations but I didn’t believe it until now! I would never do that!” to watch their brains fritz out trying to process being called a bigot and realizing they’re the sensitive bad guy in the situation.
I suppose there's nothing wrong with everyone keeping their opinions to themselves. I have that agreement with several friends. Like children, sometimes they cannot help themselves, so they have a hard time with it, but mostly it works.
Tear the family apart, Lisa.