"I used to be a libertarian because I just wanted to be left alone and I believed in extending that same courtesy to others. I became right-wing when I realized that the left will never, ever leave me alone."
The libertarians are a joke. I was the same way, joined a libertarian social group even. Almost all of them have TDS now. They try to appeal to leftists and win over exactly zero of them to their niche group. They love losing and they are complicit with the left. I had one on Facebook today from that group told me fuck you for posting that I was no longer going to wear a mask anywhere anymore.
Same thing can be said for cuckservatives. They sit back and whine about Trump's tweets or shit he says, like they have any idea of how to fight. Look faggot, do you want to have "muh conservative principles" or do you want to win?
I find this one so funny. What "conservative principles" has Trump betrayed?
Pro life? Lower taxes? Reduced regulatory burden? Pro law and order? Pro manufacturing and business? Oh wait--he's the first Republican President to actually uphold any of these since Reagan.
No, the "conservative principle" is apparently that people on the right should always bend over being nice to the liberal media and never make fun of their opponents, especially on Twitter.
... Yet I can't find that in a Republican platform from any time in history. Almost like the Bush 1&2 crew just made it up from whole cloth to excuse their fake "conservatism" of the past 30 years.
I had one guy on fb say that Trump's just "using" the Christian community for their votes and that's one of the reasons he's not voting for him. Mind you this guy is VERY anti-abortion and conservative in general. Blows my mind.
Conservatives need to understand that being tough is not immoral. When your opponent not only fights you but fights dirty there is no time to think about what is the most moral way to win.
In 2016, there was a guy at work who said he wasn't voting Trump because he thought the leaders should have moral character... I never found out who he was voting for, but my guess would be whoever it was had all kinds of skeletons in the closet.
Thats really what grinds my gears. A lot of conservatives want “purists”. Fuck that, I want to win and destroy liberalism! It takes action to win, not words!
I don't agree with everything Trump does so let's just not win at all and go hide and cry in a corner while leftists round us up and send us all to reeducation camps. /s
I am still a small-L libertarian, but the thing is, I've never been a fan of the Libertarian party. They are a joke, and they do pander to the left in the hope that they will somehow be seen as legitimate.
To be fair, many people don't know their own true beliefs. There are RINOs, DINOs, and I guess LINOs (Libertarian in name only) as well.
I am a real Libertarian. I believe in the maximization of individual liberties. And I am aware of the enemies of these values. The government must be used against them, as they are using it against you. Reciprocity is a significant pillar in ethics - and nobody has to reject power if power is used against you. No - you have the DUTY to use power to defeat the aggressor, otherwise you let them get away with it and continue to do so.
But the end goal should be to increase Free Market Capitalism rather than spiral into working towards communism to defeat communists.
And another point: Whoever is not for the ABSOLUTE ELIMINATION OF MARXISM is not a true Libertarian. Whoever finds himself flirting with leftists or trying to appease them is a cuck that belongs in the trash bin.
It's like a home invader busting your door down and coming into your house and negotiating with you on how much stuff to take. No, no negotiation. Home invaders need to be dealt with. You don't give them any of your stuff. As long as a person doesn't invade your home, who cares what he does to his own place, but as soon as he attempts to bust the door to your home down, he should immediately lose all power to bust any door down ever again.
I am in a similar boat as a registered libertarian - I am against open borders because I can think past first order consequences and know that such policy is a kumbaya campfire fantasy that inevitably leads to the erosion of the rights of citizens.
Lots of libertarians like trump. Especially since their current presidential candidate is super woke. Why would any libertarian want to vote for someone who believes that we have to be actively "anti-racist". Why would any libertarian in their right mind would want a president that wants to actively discriminate against white people. Pretty dumb If you ask me.
Another former Libertarian checking in. It's the stand you take when you can't quite bring yourself to take a real stand. I went full on Trump Train after similarly realizing the left will never leave us alone.
I thought "when gay marriage became legal in all 50 states the left will leave it alone."
Nope. See pride month. Not even one day is good enough for them. Not even one parade is enough for them. They need a month of parades. That isn't even good enough -- they demand major corporations show support or risk getting crapped all over on social media forever. That isn't good enough either; the heterosexuals are still a looming threat. Everyone who protests homosexuality or even doesn't care for it needs to be accused of sexism, intolerance and ex-communicated from society
I see marriage as a covenant between a man and woman before God. Why should the state be involved in marriage at all? Let alone trying to force me to admit something is a marriage that according to my beliefs is not a marriage. And divorce, why is the state involved in that either? If it's a union before God, how is it that some judge should have the authority to abolish that union?
A Republican state representative once suggested the nuclear option if gay marriage were ruled the law of the land: abolish marriage as a State licensed activity and replace with implicit civil contract law.
He was laughed at, scorned as a radical loon, and told to go away by the media and people on the left and right. To this day I still don't understand the opposition since what he said - and what you're saying - sounds reasonable to me.
This is literally what happened to me. I was a registered libertarian (NOT ancap) for many years and I voted them every presidential election to try to help a third party come onto the stage. Then 2016 happened with that useless pothead Gary Whogivesashit and his RINO running mate Weld on the LIbertarian side, I realized that the LIberatrian party is controlled opposition and they will never do anything useful even if they ever got power. On top of that, the anti-conservative rhetoric from the Democrats building to a scream made it abundantly obvious to me that the left wanted to torture and kill me and my family just because I was conservative, and Republicans seem to be the only ones fighting against it (however limp-wristed it may be).
I registered Independent this year, but I have always voted full ticket conservative when I have a choice, and none when it's only Democrats. I honestly would rather vote MAGA party, but no one has started that yet, so I guess I'll vote straight Republican for now.
Outgroup. Marxists (and other authoritarian collectivists) weaponize ingroup/outgroup declarations to direct their drones and instill cohesion by giving them a holy enemy to unite against. Conservatives are just the current holy enemy, but ironically enough any one of their current demographic ingroups can and will be "othered" at any point that it becomes politically convenient.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
I realized that the LIberatrian party is controlled opposition...
Beyond that, it's not even possible for a third-party to usurp the uniparty these days. The game is rigged. Local election laws have been constructed by the incestuous web of state parties and legislatures, making sure parties remain a private system of the elites while having the power of quasi-governmental organizations. It is completely antithetical to what our founders envisioned.
Trump showed how to do it. We have to take over from within and show the people there's a better way. If we get enough MAGA in there, we'll have completely destroyed the Dems and may be able to split the GOP into a coalition of Patriots and RINOs who at least vote with us most of the time.
There's a mess because of etymology versus politics. For a long time many people have called themselves liberal with a different set of dominant meanings than today. Politically, ideologically, academically and institutionally approaching the turn of the century as the left sought to redefine itself under the concept of using the new millennium to orchestrate a renewal of sorts the meaning of liberal was reformed or rather deformed along with it. This change was in an effect a reversal.
As a result when you have people today who are carrying the liberal torch yet being strict (authoritarian) and while still calling themselves liberal it makes it very difficult to continue using the label.
A lot of people have started calling themselves classical liberals as a result. While the left wing party in the UK explicitly renamed themselves New Labour ideologically despite the radical changes no one bothered to rename it. Neo-liberal was already taken so then simply never bothered. The old name isn't appropriate either but because they claim it you can't do anything. You can control what you call things and yourself but not others. The name is now like Little John.
Because the left is authoritarian but liberal isn't appropriate loads of people just call themselves libertarians instead merely to identify themselves as anti-authoritarian with less syllables.
It's still messy because there's also an established libertarian political concept with far more specifics which often isn't what many people intend to mean when they say libertarian.
English is an ongoing battle for the shortest terms to efficiently describe something ideally using familiar rather than invented terms or random terms.
Reminds me of a good quote I saw a while back:
"I used to be a libertarian because I just wanted to be left alone and I believed in extending that same courtesy to others. I became right-wing when I realized that the left will never, ever leave me alone."
The libertarians are a joke. I was the same way, joined a libertarian social group even. Almost all of them have TDS now. They try to appeal to leftists and win over exactly zero of them to their niche group. They love losing and they are complicit with the left. I had one on Facebook today from that group told me fuck you for posting that I was no longer going to wear a mask anywhere anymore.
Same thing can be said for cuckservatives. They sit back and whine about Trump's tweets or shit he says, like they have any idea of how to fight. Look faggot, do you want to have "muh conservative principles" or do you want to win?
I find this one so funny. What "conservative principles" has Trump betrayed?
Pro life? Lower taxes? Reduced regulatory burden? Pro law and order? Pro manufacturing and business? Oh wait--he's the first Republican President to actually uphold any of these since Reagan.
No, the "conservative principle" is apparently that people on the right should always bend over being nice to the liberal media and never make fun of their opponents, especially on Twitter.
... Yet I can't find that in a Republican platform from any time in history. Almost like the Bush 1&2 crew just made it up from whole cloth to excuse their fake "conservatism" of the past 30 years.
The national debt has grown by trillions. Gov't spending has only increased. Nothing conservative about that.
I had one guy on fb say that Trump's just "using" the Christian community for their votes and that's one of the reasons he's not voting for him. Mind you this guy is VERY anti-abortion and conservative in general. Blows my mind.
He banned bump stocks
he betrayed the conservative principle of pretending to conserve things while getting reemed in the ass by the D's
Conservatives need to understand that being tough is not immoral. When your opponent not only fights you but fights dirty there is no time to think about what is the most moral way to win.
In 2016, there was a guy at work who said he wasn't voting Trump because he thought the leaders should have moral character... I never found out who he was voting for, but my guess would be whoever it was had all kinds of skeletons in the closet.
Please we can elect non-Christians who fight dirty for us in the political sphere. Nothing wrong with that. These people need to wake up
I feel like the refusal to be tough is directly related to the feminization of men in the west.
Thats really what grinds my gears. A lot of conservatives want “purists”. Fuck that, I want to win and destroy liberalism! It takes action to win, not words!
I don't agree with everything Trump does so let's just not win at all and go hide and cry in a corner while leftists round us up and send us all to reeducation camps. /s
I am still a small-L libertarian, but the thing is, I've never been a fan of the Libertarian party. They are a joke, and they do pander to the left in the hope that they will somehow be seen as legitimate.
I agree!
To be fair, many people don't know their own true beliefs. There are RINOs, DINOs, and I guess LINOs (Libertarian in name only) as well.
I am a real Libertarian. I believe in the maximization of individual liberties. And I am aware of the enemies of these values. The government must be used against them, as they are using it against you. Reciprocity is a significant pillar in ethics - and nobody has to reject power if power is used against you. No - you have the DUTY to use power to defeat the aggressor, otherwise you let them get away with it and continue to do so.
But the end goal should be to increase Free Market Capitalism rather than spiral into working towards communism to defeat communists.
And another point: Whoever is not for the ABSOLUTE ELIMINATION OF MARXISM is not a true Libertarian. Whoever finds himself flirting with leftists or trying to appease them is a cuck that belongs in the trash bin.
It's like a home invader busting your door down and coming into your house and negotiating with you on how much stuff to take. No, no negotiation. Home invaders need to be dealt with. You don't give them any of your stuff. As long as a person doesn't invade your home, who cares what he does to his own place, but as soon as he attempts to bust the door to your home down, he should immediately lose all power to bust any door down ever again.
I am in a similar boat as a registered libertarian - I am against open borders because I can think past first order consequences and know that such policy is a kumbaya campfire fantasy that inevitably leads to the erosion of the rights of citizens.
Not just the erosion of the rights of citizens, but the destruction of the society as a whole.
I can respect that Evil. I’m overgeneralizing for sure, but it feels necessary. Too many cucks, too little time and I’m addicted to winning!
Lots of libertarians like trump. Especially since their current presidential candidate is super woke. Why would any libertarian want to vote for someone who believes that we have to be actively "anti-racist". Why would any libertarian in their right mind would want a president that wants to actively discriminate against white people. Pretty dumb If you ask me.
Post Ron Paul I suspect the party leadership has been puppeted much like the RNC and DNC since It got big enough to be a potential political threat.
I would say that Libertarians are a joke, but libertarians are not. I consider myself the latter but definitely not the former.
Another former Libertarian checking in. It's the stand you take when you can't quite bring yourself to take a real stand. I went full on Trump Train after similarly realizing the left will never leave us alone.
I thought "when gay marriage became legal in all 50 states the left will leave it alone."
Nope. See pride month. Not even one day is good enough for them. Not even one parade is enough for them. They need a month of parades. That isn't even good enough -- they demand major corporations show support or risk getting crapped all over on social media forever. That isn't good enough either; the heterosexuals are still a looming threat. Everyone who protests homosexuality or even doesn't care for it needs to be accused of sexism, intolerance and ex-communicated from society
All of these groups have always been about exerting power. Everything else is just window dressing.
I see marriage as a covenant between a man and woman before God. Why should the state be involved in marriage at all? Let alone trying to force me to admit something is a marriage that according to my beliefs is not a marriage. And divorce, why is the state involved in that either? If it's a union before God, how is it that some judge should have the authority to abolish that union?
A Republican state representative once suggested the nuclear option if gay marriage were ruled the law of the land: abolish marriage as a State licensed activity and replace with implicit civil contract law.
He was laughed at, scorned as a radical loon, and told to go away by the media and people on the left and right. To this day I still don't understand the opposition since what he said - and what you're saying - sounds reasonable to me.
This is literally what happened to me. I was a registered libertarian (NOT ancap) for many years and I voted them every presidential election to try to help a third party come onto the stage. Then 2016 happened with that useless pothead Gary Whogivesashit and his RINO running mate Weld on the LIbertarian side, I realized that the LIberatrian party is controlled opposition and they will never do anything useful even if they ever got power. On top of that, the anti-conservative rhetoric from the Democrats building to a scream made it abundantly obvious to me that the left wanted to torture and kill me and my family just because I was conservative, and Republicans seem to be the only ones fighting against it (however limp-wristed it may be).
I registered Independent this year, but I have always voted full ticket conservative when I have a choice, and none when it's only Democrats. I honestly would rather vote MAGA party, but no one has started that yet, so I guess I'll vote straight Republican for now.
Outgroup. Marxists (and other authoritarian collectivists) weaponize ingroup/outgroup declarations to direct their drones and instill cohesion by giving them a holy enemy to unite against. Conservatives are just the current holy enemy, but ironically enough any one of their current demographic ingroups can and will be "othered" at any point that it becomes politically convenient.
When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I did not speak out; I was not a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.
Pastor Marten Niemoller 1892-1984
I used to just call it tribalism but "weaponized ingroup/outgroup declarations" is even better.
Beyond that, it's not even possible for a third-party to usurp the uniparty these days. The game is rigged. Local election laws have been constructed by the incestuous web of state parties and legislatures, making sure parties remain a private system of the elites while having the power of quasi-governmental organizations. It is completely antithetical to what our founders envisioned.
Trump showed how to do it. We have to take over from within and show the people there's a better way. If we get enough MAGA in there, we'll have completely destroyed the Dems and may be able to split the GOP into a coalition of Patriots and RINOs who at least vote with us most of the time.
Many libertarians now believe that GEOTUS is part of the uniparty and that they use him to make life more authoritarian.
You can't win with these nerds. We try to make their speech more free, and they just dig their heels into lala land.
There's a mess because of etymology versus politics. For a long time many people have called themselves liberal with a different set of dominant meanings than today. Politically, ideologically, academically and institutionally approaching the turn of the century as the left sought to redefine itself under the concept of using the new millennium to orchestrate a renewal of sorts the meaning of liberal was reformed or rather deformed along with it. This change was in an effect a reversal.
As a result when you have people today who are carrying the liberal torch yet being strict (authoritarian) and while still calling themselves liberal it makes it very difficult to continue using the label.
A lot of people have started calling themselves classical liberals as a result. While the left wing party in the UK explicitly renamed themselves New Labour ideologically despite the radical changes no one bothered to rename it. Neo-liberal was already taken so then simply never bothered. The old name isn't appropriate either but because they claim it you can't do anything. You can control what you call things and yourself but not others. The name is now like Little John.
Because the left is authoritarian but liberal isn't appropriate loads of people just call themselves libertarians instead merely to identify themselves as anti-authoritarian with less syllables.
It's still messy because there's also an established libertarian political concept with far more specifics which often isn't what many people intend to mean when they say libertarian.
English is an ongoing battle for the shortest terms to efficiently describe something ideally using familiar rather than invented terms or random terms.
The authoritarians are the ones who want to use a virus as an excuse to lord over everyone with an iron first.