"Without God, everything is permitted" Voltaire
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Without Christianity you dont even have the choice of being atheist.
Christianity gives you the ultimate choice in all of their writings. Embrace Christ and go to heaven or reject him and become cast out.
Violence was a way of life before Christ, you wouldnt be kind to person on the street for no reason. Charity. What fervor it must have been for the early Christians to discover such a wonderful way to live.
I read that the religions and cults of Europe were pretty pissed off at the Christians for offering food, water, and clothing to the poor - with no expectation of payment or service in return. It encouraged average citizens to become Christians. Of course, like many atheists do today, they scoffed and claimed the Church was just bribing the poor to get new converts.
But the pagans couldn't win. They started copying the Christians and soon enough charity had spread throughout all of European culture.
Yeah and all that charity led to the pants-on-head retarded shit we see in places like Sweden to this day.
I truly think we’ve gone too far in that direction, to our detriment.
It’s “love thy neighbor” not “import thy neighbor from Somalia”
Because you can insult the truth because truth doesn't change. However lies can not stand being probed they fall apart if you do. Why the Quran gives death to people that insult islam.
So does the Old Testament.
False. Cite examples.
Ya this wasn't even his quote lol. I got mixed up this is Sartre. I mixed it up with "if there were no God it would be necessary to create one" actually by Voltaire.
The quote you used can be read 2 ways, too. I like that Voltaire quote, though. I remember, when I was young, I wasn't sure. I had no definition of God that made sense to me, so I didn't know if he existed or not. But, I needed him at that time. So, I decided that if he didn't exist, then I was going to create him. He would now exist in my world, my perception, my existence. I figured that the real God, if he existed (again, at the time I wasn't sure) wouldn't mind and would just be there.
We need God, but I'm convinced we need him for good reasons.
I think you are a very deep thinker. That's quite something to come up with! If you want some better arguments check this out.
https://youtu.be/ZB9bMFjHlYo
I feel that Voltaire was a deitist but simply hated the Roman Catholic Church. He seemed impressed with Quakers.
Repent of our sins is not in the bible. This is false teaching, of another Gospel. Repent and turn to Christ is in the Bible. It means Repent of your unbelief in Christ Jesus and turn to him for salvation. Faith salvation is biblical. Works salvation is not.
That isn't charity. Charity is voluntary, taxes enforced at the but of a government gun is the opposite of charity. In fact we have a word for it, theft.
He was talking about Europeans hundreds of years ago specifically
Charity is not a solely Christian thing.
The Christians made its popularity rise not just in everyday life but whole organizations dedicated to deeds of Charity.
Wow think of all the Holy Orders created in Christ's name. Domic's Friars. Francisicans, Jesuits, Monks Little Sisters of the Poor could go on forever.
One should read the Old Testament again. The Israelites were ordered not to harvest the corners of their fields and orchards so that the poor would have food. They were also told to give charity and aid to strangers in need, because they themselves had been strangers in need at one point.
The Parable of the Good Samaritan in the New Testament was a slight against the Pharisees because they had become so obsessed with being Ritually pure that they forgot the very words of God.
Charity in Christianity sprung from the charity that the God of Abraham intended, not from anything inherently different between Judaism and Christianity.
Think of them while you remember they could not read. Think of them while you read John 18:36.
Take your thinking and apply it to the rise of Islam.
It rose quicker than Christianity did so what does that say?
The line there is drawn between person-person charity and government action. The reason free societies can work is because they're supported by a strong civil society in which people do actually help each other out - without the state getting involved.
Exactly, a social safety net still does exist in free societies, its just provided by family and community willingly rather than by some far off government. Face-to-face charity works for the most party, there's a system of accountability. People who abuse small-scale family help get known for such as the help dries up. Also, with face-to-face the receivers of such help often feel gratitude and obligation to move their life to a point where they no longer need the help.
When that help starts coming from an anonymous governing body, it turns into an entitlement with no accountability.
You mean Greed and Avarice?
Charity is sacrificing of yourself to help those in need. Voting for a socialist system to take from somebody else to feed tot he poor is not Charity at all.
Every aspect of communism is one of the seven deadly sins disguised as virtues for the ignorant.
This is true! So true.
No. The Romans were pretty pissed off at the Christians because they refused to join the military, during a time in which the Roman empire was under attack.
If you would like to know what arguments led me to God from atheism, I'd like show you this
https://youtu.be/xcCcHtqzQvs
Are you familiar with Chuck missler or Jack Hibbs? Both of those men changed my life for God. I always believed in God, but now I try to live for Him
No I have never heard of them
Here is a short video from chuck missler (10 mins). If you like him, check out his learn the Bible in 24 hours series. It is not a beginner bible study despite the title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpNCdhV_Cng
Sweet will do man thanks!!!
Now try John MacArthur, pede.
I’m a big fan. I watch him weekly
That's not true at all. None of it. If you're a Christian you're an atheist in regards to thousands of gods, save one (the Jewish/Muslim/Christian Yahweh).
Theism is a state of belief. Atheism is a state of disbelief. You ALWAYS have the choice to be in a state of disbelief about anything that hasn't been demonstrated to your satisfaction - this is the default state for all extraordinary claims.
And if you're under the impression that charity and the golden rule were invented in the middle east 2k years ago, boy have I got some bad news for you...
The doublespeak is unbelievable....
It is a sickness of the mind. The best argument I ever heard against it was this.
https://youtu.be/ZB9bMFjHlYo
For the amount of bible scholars claiming to be here y'all sure don't know your Greek. Atheism isn't 'anti-religion' it is the state of being without belief a deity. If you lack belief in Vishnu or Thor, you are an atheist when it comes to the question of your belief in their existence.
Don't misinterpret what he says. He says that just how you reject the belief of thousands of Gods that humanity has believed in at some point, he rejects one more.
That doesn't actually make you an atheist, but it explains to you how someone can reject the Jewish God you believe in.
Theists are atheists
Terrible argument.
You dont even understand what this quote is saying.
There is no possible coherent moral system that can be made without objective moral purity.
You're an atheist towards 4,999 gods. Some add one more to the list.
Many of the other religions you refer to also claim an objective moral compass. You've grounded yours to barely literate bronze age peasants who elevated the Caananite war god from middle of the pantheon to the top.
No theists and atheists are mutually exclusive.
Abolition of slavery came solely from Christian extremists.
There are good things and bad things in all religions.
For those that believe there is any God(s), they believe life is a process not a state. There is a story arch to life.
The preposterous atheist belief that mortals would be created to enter a purely struggle free life of bliss and ecstasy fails to see that, ALL the evils were put here to challenge and make people grow from it.
You were put here to be harrowed and harmed by evil. It is up to you to learn from it and, stand against it.
If you are an atheist you are just in denial that you believe in something. You say you don't, but you do.
Strawman, nobody believes that.
No, I don't make an assertive assumption about that. I just don't know. Asking an atheist what created the universe is like asking a Christian what created God. Neither of us has an answer.
Oh no, I believe morality is universal and absolute to humanity.
See number #2
Why would you? Perhaps it's just a need to console yourself thinking that all the injustices in this world will be resolved in the next?
Please continue on what you think atheists think.
No, I'm an atheist, not an agnostic. I don't make an affirmative claim on why and how the universe exists, but I also affirm that it was not a God (any God) who created it.
Interesting. I will accept your point. If I believe that universe has an age, as science says, then it's reasonable for you to ask me what created it.
Wrong. Theism is the belief in a God or Gods.
And other religions most certainly believe that their own God created the universe. For example under Hinduism it was the God named Brahma who created the universe.
Are you an atheist or a gnostic?
Atheist.
Facccctttttttsssss
Source: I was atheist
Atheist = dont believe in any divine beings. Atleast thats what I think, and all atheists I've ever met. We just dont believe there exists Gods.
You know gods were created by man, not the other way around. You're in denial if you can't see that.
Atheists don't deny that they believe in something. They just don't believe in any particular organized religion.
Scientism is highly organized and followed by most atheists.
Thank you for additional evidence that most atheists are in denial. They deny they have a religion, when if you look at their worship of science, it's obvious it's got all the aspects of religion (or more accurately a cult)
I'll let you fill in the rest of this list:
https://religion-society.weebly.com/8-aspects-of-religion.html
You don't even know me, dude. I don't do any of those 3 things because science is not a religion.
Science has no dogma or predicted outcome. You're making a strawman based on the buzzwords of climate alarmists.
I used the word "scientism", not "science"
Bahwwhaaaaa. You don't know how scientism works do you.
Im talking about the idea to choose. You have your own agency. The concept of Christians was not even atheist or Christian, theist or believer. Its that you have the individual power to choose, save your soul, work with the Lord find redemption and live the pious life or CHOOSE another path.
Atheism as a term comes to us around the 1800s. Nonbeliever or heretic much longer. Nonbeliever implies that there is something to believe. Heretic that youve gone a different path.
Your atheist semantics would be true in the modern day.
Charity's popularity exploded with the rise of Christianity. Most all scholars agree with that, most who dont have an axe to grind about a religion that wronged them in their past....
Thats false. Christians know there are other lower gods, shoot even Jesus and our Father calls us gods of the earth.
We know there are gods but what we know them as demons and fallen angels who left their first estates and fell from grace seeking pleasure, glorfy and carnal interactions .
It is the Father, Jesus Christ the son and image and the Holy Spirit which are 3 in 1 the one true God.
They will never understand us until they come to the light of God! Everyone has a long journey though and, they need their time.
I would venture to say this pede. If you are a true believer youre more likely to support the President and if you support the President you are even more likely to become a believer if you are not one. So come one and all. Whatever order you come to the good sides.
Eh. At the very least a core concept of American ideology is that we are endowed by our Creator certain inalienable rights and that He created all men and women equal. The Pledge of Allegiance (sans "under God") didn't become a thing until WW2 when pro-American propaganda was pushed hard and "under God" didn't come in until the Cold War when it was essentially used to take a stance against atheism which was favored by Communist regimes.
While obviously one does need to believe in and accept Christ as their savior to be saved, American patriotism runs more under the belief that there is at least some form of higher entity that created us and bestowed upon us the rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
What if I dont believe in God but still want to get to heaven if it exists? I dont believe in Gods, but I still try my best to live a good life so that incase a Hell exists I wont go there because of my actions in life.
I cant just start believing something that I dont believe exists?
Good people will go to hell without Jesus. You can be Mother Teresa and devote your life to helping others and still go to hell. How is this? The actual problem is sin. A perfect God will not be in the presence of sin. If you sin once, you are guilty of sin. NO ONE can live a sinless life, and because of that, we deserve death. God is just and requires a punishment for sin. However, God is loving and merciful and so He sent us an out. Jesus came to earth as a man, lived a sinless life, and was sacrificed for us to pay the price for our sin. He then conquered death and rose from the dead. The price of sin is death and so it required a blood sacrifice. Jesus also had to live a sinless life because God required a perfect sacrifice. He willingly laid down His life in our place. The thing that separates’ Christianity from other religions is that we cannot earn our way into heaven. Christianity isn’t about good works. The price has already been paid. Our salvation is set in Christ’s finished work on the cross. There is nothing we can do to add to it.
It’s honestly such a relief that God did this for us. The Good news should be celebrated on the hill tops!!! Thank you Jesus!!!! My heart is lifted!
Pathway to hell is paved with good intentions.
Just accept Jesus Christ on earth and testify about him openly on earth and Jesus will testify for you in heaven. Thats literally his words.
If you just do good works but deny Jesus then he cant help you. Because Satan even does good works for those who do his bidding.
Im baptized and thats supposed to get you into heaven as well. Sure I accept him, just dont believe there is a God
Jesus commanded his disciples to baptize people, but never said it would get people to heaven. We don't know why this command was given, only that it was. I got baptized out of respect and obedience to Christ. I imagine when I get to heaven, I can ask why we did that.
You were baptized at an age of being able to repent of your sins and accepting Jesus Christ as the bIble says to do? Or were you sprinkled on with water as a baby as many false denominations like to do to infants to make you be apart of their church forever through brainwashing?
You have to believe Pede. Let all your rational thoughts go. Don’t worry about logic an reason. There is no puzzle to solve when it comes to the truth of God. Your mind is fallible and was never mean to discover whether there is a God or not. The point of believing is that you don’t ever really know till you get to heaven. Scary but just embrace God and He will embrace you.
A lot of christians don't understand this, many people assume heaven and hell are these far off places, but these are just names for a state of being.
Heaven is a choice to be close to God. Hell is a choice to be away from God. So if you don't believe in God, why would you ever want to be close to God? Why would you go to Heaven? And if God is really God, then God is everywhere. In all places at once. My personal take is that some people spend their lives running from God, because they continue to seek the pleasures of sin. They only escape when they die. They create their own personal hell right here on earth.
And others spend their lives seeking God by following the Law written on their hearts. They spend their lives with God, and get to actually feel peace. When they die, they are finally complete and purified and get to join God.
Just keep doing what your doing, you'll find yourself believing in the impossible before you know it. You'll find that doing good just in case hell exists is not enough to motivate you to do good all the time. And then you might realize that you can't do it all alone after all.
Well according to Christianity/the Bible, no one can enter God's kingdom without Jesus. Just depends on what you want to believe.
So you could basically be Jesus incarnate (on the moral and virtous level) and still not enter Heaven unless you believe God exists?
Well that's kind of a moot point because a core concept/teaching of Christianity is that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" and thus Jesus is the way/the truth/the life - no one gets to be with God except through Christ. So the goal is to certainly be as Christ-like as possible, but one can never truly be Jesus incarnate on a moral or virtuous level. Everyone screws up at some point, but Christ's death keeps our sinful slates forgiven.
But I mean that's just the message from Christianity and there are other religions and beliefs out there. Ultimately you have the freedom to choose what you want to believe and in this lifetime we have no way to truly know what the right belief system is or even if there is something for us after our physical bodies fall apart and stop functioning.
So if you want to believe in heaven and make sure you can get there when you die, there's more than just Christianity that carries that concept. It really just depends on what you want to or can come to believe is true, and believe strongly enough to put all bets on it. For me, all bets are on Christ.
100%. If you deny God you deny the declaration of independence. As it says by Our Creator we are given unalienable rights. Not some random acts of chance.
I'd venture that by the very virtues of our founding fathers, you can be a Christian without being a Bible-thumping, window-licking divider of men who makes other Christians sound straight from the old world.
If you have no God, then you have no authority to enforce your moral code on others. The voices in your head are only superior to a rapists if you have power over him. Democrats bread and butter is trying to gain enough power to override their neighbors morals.
Our country is buily on the bedrock of Christian morality, for sure. And I'm glad to live in a country where I might simply concern myself with the actions of a rapist and not his thoughts.
Glad you noticed this. There is so much doom and gloom that everything is lost these days. People don’t realize that people are responding to the plague of progressivism by going hardcore conservative Christian. It’s just like the Trump movement, but with religion. Conservative churches are swelling in numbers and attendees while progressive churches are closing left and right.
This is entirely external to what I said, but since you brought up political correctness let's go with it. Saying you can't be a Patriot if you're not Christian is exactly the same thing as saying you can't be a victim if you're not a minority. Tired old political correctness, it is devoid of thought. And Americans have a history of questioning modes of conclusion from which thought is absent. And yes, Christianity feels this sting of higher criticism. This is why we're not stuck in the dark ages like the middle east.
Bible believing and bible thumping are different things.
Christ says preach the gospel to every living creature and we read our conversations should always lead to the laws of God.
However it does say not to go door to door, and yet thats what some we know do. They pick and choose the wrong things.
That which is literal like .ie commandments, statutues, ordinances, how to treat people, how to be a good person they interpret as metaphorical. Which is a lie.
And that which is prophetical or metaphorical they take literal.
Its why Christ says in the end many will fall away because of this type of bad judgement and behavior.
I’m not Christian, but I mostly agree. The US Constitution is the sum total of all philosophical and religious progress of the Western world, a good deal of which is from Christianity. It’s written all over it. You don’t have to believe in a literal god to acknowledge that. In fact, there being a God or not with a capital G is entirely irrelevant to it, which confuses many when considering it.
“I don’t believe in God, so everything that has to do with that, past and present, is wrong and false!” Yeah, not really.
Looking to history and the present, there are also seemingly zero successful Muslim states. When you look over to Asia in places like China, you’re not usually going to like what you see, either, when it comes to a lot of that. The ones you would like are usually the most Westernized, like Hong Kong. British rule was the best thing that ever happened to them. And America. Native American culture back then didn’t exactly contribute anything to the modern world. They made some epic beads I guess.
You can shit on Christianity all you want. Not all Christians are perfect, and never will be. Acknowledging that’s built into it. But if you don’t acknowledge the infinite debt we all have to Christianity and the Christian community, you‘re probably very ignorant of what has gone on over the last few hundred years, if not thousands of years. And again, I’m not a Christian, and I don’t believe in God. If we had a Christian revival over the Postmodern upheaval we’re all in, we’d all have been better off.
Postmodernism probably has more words written for it than anything before it, and still hasn’t managed to do one productive thing.
I know some really nice Paki People, but that does make sense in their case, and they mostly fled Pakistan to get away from that shit. They seemingly have every health problem you can imagine, usually accompanied by entirely recessive genes.
I imagine the biggest cultural divide in Pakistan is between people that do that and people that don’t because the people that don’t are probably loads smarter in ways the other portion can’t relate to because of years of that shit.
When I see a comment like this downvoted I assume it's a shill.
Or an inbred.
You see a lot of places where everyone has like 1 downvote from a commie passing through. It's good to give those people an uptrump just to let the commies know that it's futile.
It could also be a left handed person scrolling and, accidentally downvoting.
It also can lead to butthurt which I assume is the reason some people choose particular comments.
Well, I mean if I were a shill com that is how I would play it.
Ya incest doesn't usually leave the family...
I agree and disagree with both of you guys, though I'm sure we're all on the same page.
God is definitely necessary to the philosophy and morality of the United States. The unquestionable belief in a Creator and His "God-given rights" forms the bedrock of what can and can't be altered in our country. It's what people will die for.
If you don't believe in this absolute authority, and if you do believe that our nation is formed by concepts delivered by flawed human beings, then America could not have the solidity, conviction, and exceptionalism that makes us unlike any other country on Earth.
At the same time, it's not that our nation and philosophy is like Christianity because it's based on Christianity. Rather, both endeavors work towards the same truth and realization of God's Will, and thus their similarity.
So while you don't need to be Christian to fully appreciate the American Spirit, you do need to know God. And the true God just happens to be who Jesus spoke of and also is.
The ottamans were attacking Europe for hundreds of years. I would consider them successful up until the siege of Vienna.
The Voltaire quote speaks to the fact that there is no coherent moral system man can create without a pure moral source.
That source of morality you recognize and, dane to indulge or deny is the makers mark in you.
The laws of morality are not like the laws of physics. A rock obeys the laws of physics. A person decides to obey the moral law.
https://youtu.be/xcCcHtqzQvs
Becaus the Christian kings didnt unite to defend against them, meanwhile every muslim joined their crusades to take out one country at a time
When muslims first invaded, all the kings of Europe was busy disliking eachother, so the muslims conquered a lot. They had 3 jihads before thefirst crusade started to retake what they had conquered
that's because for a while the muslims were united under one country
LOL WUT?
You don't know history then. Ottoman empire was one of strongest and longest lasting empire in history.
As for today, there are 4 Muslim countries with a higher GDP (per capita) than the US: Qatar, Brunei, UAE, Kuwait.
And then Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Oman have a GDP in line with major European countries.
Too bad there's half a continent, Africa, of failed states which are Christians. There's also a lot more shitholes which are Christians, such as Haiti.
The correlation between Christianity and wealth is zero. The real correlation is with race, and it just happens that today white people are Christians.
Good points for the most part, but let me rephrase that: You don’t typically see the same kind of stable and developed states in Muslim run countries as you do in Christian ones. With how unequal wealth tends to be distributed there, it’s also not an easy comparison to make.
I wouldn’t consider Africa a Christian state. There’s been a big surge of Christianity there, and about an equal surge in Muslims, but Africa’s mostly been chaotic for a very long time. I’m not sure I’d count something as a Christian state if a bunch of people there became Christian after it was already on fire.
Ya, Muslim states deffinitely destabilize over time but, they all kinda do...
Thomas Sowell has some great points that cultural practices yield success regardless of race IQ or education.
https://youtu.be/J92gQDZ4dL8
Africa certainly qualifies as Christian. It's actually much more religious than the West, so African Christian countries should be doing great compared to the West that has all these damn atheists.
And contrary to what you said, a Muslim country can be much more stable. They don't accept destructive forces such as feminism or LGBT. Islam has "antibodies" which is killing anything that goes against it. Christianity doesn't, with its "turn the other cheek" mentality. Demonstration of that is that, while both religions are against homosexuality, in Christian countries you have schools infested by LGBT activists that convert our children. Islam does not allow that. Their "intolerance" is their strength.
Besides, in 2020 who is colonizing who?
Africa seems to have just as many Muslims as Christians, both of which are seemingly more recent things. Not that there aren’t a million reasons Africa’s not doing so hot, and was maybe never doing so hot.
I will agree on Islam being intolerant of other religions does protect them from postmodern bullshit.
There's only one reason, and that reason is race.
Rhodesia was doing pretty fucking good, considering the geographical isolation and the international sanctions.
Maybe. Personally, I wouldn’t peg it on race. I know different races have higher or lower IQ averages, but you also can’t separate that from the shithole conditions people grow up in. Just look at Asian people growing up poor and eating little, then they come to America and their kids eat more and suddenly you have 6’ tall kids from 5’ parents. I’m willing to bet similar things are going on with IQ, though at the same time, that’s also an argument for the existing state of lower IQ in shithole countries, I’m only attributing it differently.
That's retarded Nigerians and, Caribbean blacks that live in the US have higher average incomes than whites.
The last other race of human was neanderthal.
There is literally only one race.
I will explain
A donkey and a horse are different races of equine. They can have offspring which is called a mule.
No mules can breed with anything on earth because all interrace offspring are universally infertile.
That is the definition of a race.
I lost a couple of points of IQ just by reading this post.
A donkey and a horse are different species.
Legal immigrants do better on paper because it's a highly self selected group as only the best of a country's population can (legally) succeed in a different country. You don't get a Nigerian drug addict good for nothing to win a visa for the US. Do you even know what it takes to legally immigrate to the US? Only the very best can get a visa, apart from the very small "diversity lottery" that Trump trashed.
Neanderthal is a different species too, they were not humans.
Race is objectively not definable in humans.
You are just a racist who doesn't understand that
And you are a science denier
I need a link to what study this was. I cant see what the abbreviations are for here.
Have you read intellectuals and race by Thomas Sowell?
Well said. Christianity has many great life lessons and morals that everybody should have. That is why the demorats do not have morals and hate Christianity but love Islam so much.
The law of God is written on everyone's hearts. It's called having a conscience. Those who have never heard the Law or learned about Christ will be judged according to their conscience. One can squelch his conscience by committing acts of evil. Also, any person who has not the Spirit of God is open to demonic influence.
I appreciate it. I may call you Christ Fags in jest, but I’d die defending your right to believe it in peace and confidence. I hope it doesn’t get to that point, but hope isn’t stopping these loons.
Christian values are the backbone of the West.
🤦♂️
Is that wrong? Genuinely asking.
It’s an attempt to normalize Judaism in the West.
In fact the term barely existed before the 20th century.
Islam borrows from Judaism but have you ever heard of “judeo-Islamic”?
Ironically the Muslims have much more respect and reverence for Jesus than the Jews.
Muslims don't respect Jesus, they exalt Isa, who is an Islamic retcon of Jesus. Per the Koran, Mohamed claimed (against all historical evidence) that Jesus (heretofore called "Isa" as per Islamic teaching) taught Islam (not Christianity as history teaches), that he didn't die on the cross, and that he didn't rise again (per the Koran, anyone who believes he rose again is going straight to hell). Mohamed made these claims 600 years after the fact and without any supporting evidence to refute the mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Even when Muslims say Isa is "exalted," they exalt Isa not for what he accomplished, but for things like his birth. When Muslims say that Isa was exalted it's along the lines of "he was born of virgin and that's a great sign" or "he spoke shortly after birth" or he performed all of these miracles" or "Allah took him to heaven and wouldn't allow him to be killed."
Unfortunately, ultimately, Isa in Islam is a gigantic failure as (again, per Islamic teaching) his Muslim followers fell away and his mission to establish Islam failed. Per Islamic claims, after Isa was taken away by Allah without dying on the cross, his message was corrupted and his followers fell away. In fact, they fell away so quickly that we don't even have any record that Isa had Muslim followers. There's no record anywhere in history. We had to wait until Mohamed to come along and say "oh yeah, he totally taught Islam and had Muslim followers." We have no record of their existance anywhere outside of Islam.
So Isa, after all that work, after doing all of these miracles, doesn't get anything done. It was all wasted. After Isa is taken away there are only two kinds of people. There are people who are bowing down to Him and worshipping Him as Lord (they're going to hell according to Islam for shirk), and there are people who rejected Him (they're going to hell according to Islam for rejecting one of Allah's prophets). So at the end of all of Isa's work, everyone's going to hell!
A guy who utterly fails at spreading Islam is one of Allah's greatest messengers? he chose his followers and they all got corrupted "somehow" (the Koran doesn't elaborate). he didn't do anything that lasted. After all of that. after the most miraculous life EVER, nothing lasted and this is how Islam respects Isa? he is respected by portraying him as this incompetent guy who spends all these years doing this and just doesn't get the job done?
Per Islam (really just Momamed), that's why we need Mohamed, because he comes along later and he gets the job done. he gets things done. Isa couldn't make things work.
I understand that Jews don't really respect Jesus, not that they necessarily should be expected to as they reject His teachings, but Muslims don't really respect Jesus. They exalt the Mohamed's retcon of Jesus, Isa, and not for what he accomplished, but for the miraculous life he led, per Mohamed's claims.
No because the Old Testament has the Jews as the chosen people, which God favors and helps them slaughtering everyone else.
So no, it's not a redundancy. It's an oxymoron. Christianity cannot be compatible with Judaism. The former is a universal religion, the latter is a racial one.
This is false. There were many instances of different races converting to Judaism in the Bible.
You can use the term Abrahamic. Some Christians love to pretend their God wasn't a psychotic bronze age tyrant before he had his son.
The worst part of it yikes!
I am forced to ride on a top comment because I missed this whole post as I was in New.
This one is my forte, as I was an atheist, and one no longer.
It was mere human philosophy that led me to Christ.
It isn't a matter of simply "without God all is permitted". Voltaire was not as witty as he probably thought he was.
I would say "without God, nothing is permitted".
Why? Look at any society not touched by a God. They aren't many but there have been a few. Absolute power by a few with power over everyone else. Nothing permitted but what the self-established God-King says.
The freedom of the West are the ideals of the West, and they sprang from Christianity. Long before that, the pantheon of Gods the West worshiped did little to stop tyrants from making any rules they chose. But Christianity set rules in stone, put down in books, and when even the Roman Catholic church took it too far with indulgences and the like, it sprang forth the Protestant Reformation.
Laugh at all of it if you will, but if you are an atheist have you seen the end of the tunnel as I have, philosophically, to see the end of existence, the blackness and nothingness and meaningless of what it is to be human without a creator or purpose? Because it is there, even if you want to ignore it.
Yes, we can all agree on religion as a means for having a moral compass to adjust society and thus we have relative rules to live by. Eureka, we have society.
But as individuals, looking ahead, philosophically again. What do you see without a God of some kind? What is the end road? Nothingness. No end, because the beginning was an accident. No creator? No meaning?
So why even have a society at all?
Oh well it was some greater race of life put us here and is watching us. Ok, that is a creator. Any way you slice it.
Oh, well it's a simulation. Still creators.
Well, life is seeded throughout the universe, and life is a part of the universe...ok where did the seeds come from?
Life is chemistry, and it must come forth under the right conditions (I believe this because it best describes our observations) so life was inevitable.
Ok, so why do you have any right over me and why cannot I just make you my slave if I have a bigger gun. Because it is wrong? Says who? Where does right and wrong come into it? What is that? Your idea?
There are many universes and...ok this is lazy science that is actually metaphysics (which religion falls under) posing as science.
"Big Bang!". That's not an answer, it's a partial explanation of a tiny portion of the inflation event we still do not know how to fully explain but probably happened in someway similar to how we see it did but are still missing some things about it, but still does not answer what came before either this mythical singularity or the expansion or bang itself. Just kicking the can down the road to a point in the road we cannot see so we make the excuse that we "can't see it".
Ultimately, something came from nothing at some point. Time started at some point. Mass/Energy started somewhere.
The Metaphysical questions are where did those come from. The Supernatural (which simply means outside of Nature, and Nature means observable natural phenomena) is just an expression for what we don't know and cannot directly observe, including multiverses.
And if we are in that realm now, where we question such things beyond the scope we can make experiments to test, then I ask, what comes next? Heat death or the big snap or whatever theory? And then, in such a universe of accidental interactions, what is life itself? Has it any meaning? And if not, why follow a single rule we have made for ourselves?
So a few can figure out a few things about a universe destined for one type of death or another while most of the rest could care less and die for no reason thinking they led good lives, defined by people who died a thousand years earlier?
Atheists have to be the most obtuse and also selfish people on this planet. Or just stupid and don't realize it. It's one of those.
I'll take arguments about this God or some other God and rules about God and this or that. But completely disallowing for some kind of creator figure without some kind of explanation at all and the monumentally stupid explanations for it that use dogma like multiverse theory but pretending that is science is just the type of boorish bullshit I simply cannot take.
Ya i've triggered a few militant atheists today! What a blast! This comment is awesome thank you for sharing! I too came back to the light! It is so sad that a meaningful life needs only be chosen and, worked towards yet, so many recoil from the light. God bless you brother!
This is one of the main reasons I am Christian. Something had to create this whole universe. Call it Mother Nature or whatever, it's all the same thing as what Christians call God.
Why I am a Christian specifically is not discussed in this post I made lastnight. And the reasons you give are not good enough in my opinion to be a Christian specifically.
But there are very good reasons to be a Christian specifically. Maybe I will make a post about it sometime, but if you feel conviction to be a follower of Christ already, I feel no need to convince you brother.
Pretty sure this quote is Dostoyevsky.
By the way, thanks for allowing me to finally put to work some of the Liberal Arts courses I took from college. I thought that time and money was totally wasted but here I am finally using it.
Thanks! I saw it somewhere mis attributed or, I fucked it up who knows! I cant change titles otherwise I would.
It's fine. Voltaire said similar things.
Well he prolly would have agreed! I'll do better next time with my crusader memes!
Yes, this quote is Dostoevsky, not Voltaire. If any of you have not read Dostoevsky, do it. He's amazing and really a based author in his own context.
Just for the record:
That is a slightly altered quote from The Brothers Karamazov by Dostoevsky.
Voltaire's (arguably) most famous quote was "if God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent Him".
Dude, someone else pointed out my mistake but, I couldn't think of why I thought of Voltaire! I heard both of these before and this is exactly what I smushed together! You read my mind!
Sound. I think you can use the idea to represent social accountability. With groups and fraternal networks, people all understand reputations of nondegenerate life and how it hurts others if anyone cheats. This social purpose motivates most of the moral derivations people use in religions.
I don't think evolution is a satisfactory explanation for morality.
I also don't think science has any legitimate explanation for the start of the universe
Well... the start of the universe is a very difficult thing to study.
Science has ideas for how the universe started, but they are simply our best ideas for how it might’ve happened given the evidence we can collect.
It really, REALLY helps that the farther away something is from us in the cosmos, the longer it takes its light to reach us. So if something is 5 light years away, the light we are receiving from it now (at the current moment) is a snapshot of how that object was 5 years ago.
This means we can look at the sky and look “back in history” by looking at things that are farther or closer to us.
The farthest we can look is at the “background” of the sky, which is called the cosmic microwave background, and which contains the faintest light from the longest time ago. The different aspects of this imprint—how the energy is distributed, whether it’s uniform or not, etc.—gives us lots of clues.
We also get clues from observations like the expansion of the universe, the formation of stars, fundamental physics, and so on.
The biggest limitation right now is that we do not have a good model of quantum gravity. All the other forces have been united at the quantum scale and we know how they interact at different energies. We just haven’t yet been able to figure out gravity.
A big discovery was finding evidence of gravitational waves. We now have to wonder whether there exists a particle that mediates the force of gravity much like the photon mediates the electromagnetic force (plus the other gauge bosons; the gluons for the strong force that “glues” nuclei together, and the W and Z bosons for the weak force... these are some stupid names for sure, but hell, it’s what we’ve got).
Our theories for fundamental physics work pretty well, so it’s a clue that we are on the right track. If your buddy had a model for how he thought quarterbacks could be rated, that would be all fine and dandy... but the moment he was able to start predicting the scores of entire football seasons in advance, you’d think, well maybe it isn’t PERFECTLY accurate but at least it’s pretty damned close!
It is undebatable that using theory alone, we have been able to predict with incredible accuracy the existence of new particles, like the Higgs boson. Technologies like GPS also depend on very complex topics like relativity, so we know that our models are at least “pretty good” if they are able to be predictive and not just descriptive.
This isn’t anything against religion at all. The two are not mutually exclusive, and are not in competition.
You are absolutely right in your last paragraph and, it is refreshing to see an atheist at least willing to concede this.
Do you believe evil exists?
I wouldn’t say I’m an atheist. That is an extremely dumb thing to be, because it assumes certainty that there is nothing like a higher power or god.
When it comes to moral things like evil, I think that there is no such thing as objective evil. The ability to decide whether something is right or wrong is a part of the moral construct that shapes every individual’s perception of the world around them. These constructs are heavily influenced by the experiences that we have and the societies to which we belong.
There is no such thing as “objective right” or “objective wrong.” That is simply our perception at work. Now this doesn’t mean that some things aren’t so appalling to us that any sensible human would agree that they’re wrong. Things like murder, killing children, and so on.
What I mean by no objective right and wrong (and evil vs good) is that if a rock falls on someone and kills them, you do not call the rock evil. It exists outside of our human world of right and wrong.
Maybe a different way to say it is this. I think there are human instincts that we have from birth which guide our morality. Very simply things. We smile when we are happy, and we become happy when we see others smile, even when we are babies too young to have any idea of what we are doing. This means that regardless of our society’s structure, we are almost inevitably going to value a world where people seek happiness and where we try to benefit one another. Same goes for other things. We have empathy, and we can experience by proxy how are actions would affect someone else. This means we hesitate to take blanket opportunities to hurt others because we know how it feels to be hurt. We also have an urge to procreate and we become psychologically very tightly bound to our children, especially women. So it isn’t hard to understand why societies all over the planet have developed societies where there are family structures that ensure our kids are nurtured.
All this to say. I think our sense of good and evil is rooted in our deep instincts, and we add nuance to it by reacting to the world around to develop a value system that changes as we experience life. The reason why humans are so united by a widely shared core of morals, nuances aside, is because we share these instincts. What with being the same species and all.
Does this make sense?
You are making sense. These are logical questions that many people ask. I think the book that most directly answers these questions from a Christian view is "Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis. Take a chance, you aren't on Reddit anymore this book literally expounds a rational argument to why there is objective morality that all humans recognize. It is a law of human nature, the only law of nature that can willingly be broken. The law is made to test your soul in this life.
https://youtu.be/J92gQDZ4dL8
God intended for people to be susceptible to evil, there would be no point in that. He has Angels, what he wants is children who in spite of all the horror of this life, recognize the great blessing it is to be able choose to be better than that and, to work to make the world a better place for those they can help.
God's only son was made to; wear a thorny crown, bear his own cross and got nailed to it and speared till death. I do not expect to get through this life without having to face atrocity, pain and, death directly. It is up to you and me to stand against it and, make a place where children can grow up in peace.
social accountability, in real time, not evolution. Everyone can see if someone cheats and would not do business with him after.
the second, yes, except it does not mean any specific personal moral god did it.
Funny, I thought this most famous quote was to make his enemies ridiculous.... It's my all time fav at least.
That's what people did over and over again throughout history. Kept reinventing and redefining god.
Jordan Peterson said something akin to this in one of his maps of meaning lectures: it's known as the Democratisation of Osiris.
Egypt had the pharaoh as the embodiment of Horus/Osiris, and was therefore godlike and sovereign.
In time, Aristocrats in Egypt started to use the Horus/Osiris sigil, and sovereignty travelled down the hierarchy. Sovereignty meaning people were treated with respect, and were (roughly speaking) derived from the divine.
The Greeks came along and said this sovereignty applied to men (males) of means.
The Christians came along and said: No, everyone is sovereign, men, women and even the meanest of people, even those who are murderers.
And so we have the situation where everyone is assumed innocent until proven guilty, primarily because we attribute the individual with the attributes of the divine.
I'm not a Christian, but try to live my life with Christian values, mainly because I've been brought up with them, but they work whatever your view of God is.
This blew my mind when I first heard it.
I'm not aware of any other religion that has the importance of the individual completely baked into it at the fundamental level.
Amazing.
When I first saw one of Jordan Peterson videos, I had no idea who he was or why YouTube recommended his video. It just looked like a classroom lecture over normal everyday life lessons. Kinda like a self-help / advice seminar for youth. OK cool I guess.
I only revisited his stuff and started paying attention after hearing there was some "controversy" over him, and laughed out loud at the reasons for said controversy. Everything he says is common sense - and frankly not that innovative - I didn't realize things he said could even be controversial. (except maybe the wage gap, but that's always been a political football)
I always knew there were weirdos that had their own fringe ideas counter to what he says, but I didn't know they had become so influential in society.
My take is that he's describing why we have an affinity to do certain things, and it's because it is baked in at a very very low level physically, and is also very ancient. Meaning that 'thoughts' like postmodernism, which is less than a century old, is a very poor substitute.
Which, to my mind, is why the left hate him and find him 'controversial'. They are influential, mainly because we've let them become so, as we're too busy 'getting stuff done' to go to the local town hall, the PTA, and assuming that universities are there to expand minds (they're not).
He's opened my mind in several ways, and is a big part of my own red-pilling.
Yeah a lot of what he is saying is innately understood but he elaborates it in a very easy to understand way that can break people out of the social programming we've grown up with. Programming that covers up and dulls our natural instincts.
Ya they are funded by China and socialists to subvert our way of life. Their efforts can not drown out the word of God to those brave enough to seek it.
Ya, there is something special about it.
I was atheist, I came back to God through reasonable and logical rationale.
I know everyone has to choose to be open to the idea maybe, now is your time to come back to the light.
https://youtu.be/ZB9bMFjHlYo
Thanks for the link, I've heard good things about CS Lewis, so I think I'll give it a listen.
I could hardly recommend anything more wholeheartedly
You are modern proselytizer. BigPedeEnergy. Who knows how many souls you have saved with this post?
Hey, chill out I gotta stay humble here but, thank you so much! If it's one it's more than I could hope for!
So what religion do you practice?
I grew up in a northern pentacostal church so, pentacostal cause it's the closest church and, I have always felt the services were good. My family goes there and, I'm only going to one church on Sundays.
Deus Vult, fren.
God is with us, fren!
Without God there is no objective right and wrong, it is everyone's subjective beliefs, which always differ vastly across a population, and survival of the fittest, which can be tribal or within tribes.
You get it man!
Have you read CS Lewis?
https://youtu.be/ZB9bMFjHlYo
What’s worse torture, the lake of fire or daily exposure to the lying Leftist media
You know, God prolly wasn't making a good place for the msm to go to so, I don't wanna end up there!
Well no. Without God, powerful men decide what is or is not permitted.
I kinda butchered this quote.
"If God does not exist, then everything is permitted"
They may decide to prohibit but, they still have to enforce. They also have to be made aware of the offense and, make a judgement on it. They are not constant nor, omnipresent.
You cannot escape morality because you are a moral agent. You were born to judge right from wrong and act on that.
https://youtu.be/ZB9bMFjHlYo
Even if God did exist, we still enforce things. And, although I’m atheist, I consider myself extremely moral. When others on here were telling people to go to eBay and buy looted merchandise from Chicago, I recoiled. Not because it’s illegal, which it is, but because it’s wrong (which is why it’s illegal). It undermines society to reward people for theft. I’m pro-life because life is the most basic good, as long as it isn’t destructive - and babies are not destructive. But without God the ultimate authority is life itself. We have morality because it keeps us alive. Stealing from your community makes your community weaker, and it’s no surprise your community would want to punish you. Same with murder, and rape. These things all cause harm, regardless of god. Even homosexuality leads to not having children, which is an immense harm when the ultimate good is producing more life. Just look at liberals vs. conservatives. The average conservative has 2.07 children. The average liberal has 1.4. Liberalism cannot reproduce itself. In a few hundred years it will be extinct.
I think the biological constructionist view of morality is very unconvincing to me. These moral lines extend far beyond what evolution would have interest in.
The statement still stands indisputable to me.
You need a pure moral source to create a moral system.
There is literally nothing that couldn’t affect evolution. The fact that you said “have an interest in” as if evolution is sentient or goal oriented just proves you don’t understand evolution.
Truth 1) there is no God.
Truth 2) we have moral systems.
I just checkmated you.
You have an explanation for why evil exists which makes sense? Do you have an explanation for why God decide you make black people dumber and more violent than other races? An omnipotent and omniscient God of Love is a terrible explanation for the world.
There was always a God.
You didnt checkmate me.
All of the moral systems are based on Gods.
There is no atheist moral system that isn't getting all of it's main points from religion.
Not all moral decisions affect evolutionary effectiveness. If that were true you would never have a problem doing something bad when no one is looking but, you know it is still immoral not, bad for you.
Christ and Pepe.
This is the way.
That is Trump's face posted onto a crusader. Christ was there in their hearts tho
DEUS VULT
DEUS VULT
If you remove God then you'll not going to be happy with the entity that replaces him. Desolation follows...
And depression! Trust me I was atheist and, believing nothing matters is bad for your health. It was the worst time of my life
Where are my fellow based Crusader pedes?
Right here brother!
Without Jesus Christ, society is doomed. Like it or not, Atheists.
Don't push them too hard they are very fragile
No, I really don't want that to happen at all man. The Turks are not to be taken lightly. I want them to reform their ways for the better voluntarily.
I am pretty sure we gotta invade china and, maybe Mexico to stop the cartels.
Those that deny God exists implicitly are denying evil exists.
<3 MAGA2020
You know it!
That style of Pepe face is so cute! And it works no matter how he's dressed. No wonder he was the mascot of the Hong Kong protests.
100% tru!! I think this is Apu technically
Awesome, thx 'pede n_n
Why the West needs Christianity. This was done byban athiest who even though might deny the divinity of Christ, can not deny the awesome nature in which Christianity and European cultures have made this world better.
And can confirm that everything dark, ugly, disgusting, wrong, perverted, all comes from accepting ugliness and ungodliness over the good and right and Christian like.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tk62CtH6-mg
https://youtu.be/ZB9bMFjHlYo
Here is my favorite expalnation of the need for Godliness
CS Lewis got me back on track long time ago.
That's what the book is for! I'm making sure it gets to everyone who needs it
We have the best artists!!
From the Crusades thru the Gates of Vienna to ISIS -- the battle continues.
It will only end when his kingdom comes!
Ill check it out!
With Christ, slavery is possible.
Ephesians 6:5 Collosians 3:22
Yup, God put evil into this world. Slave and master both have parts to play. Christians today don't own any slaves almost universally. We did have a whole reform movement ya know?
A reform in European-minded countries after years of brutality against innocent people who had a different opinion.
Nice side step from my point of "With God, slavery is permissable."
All evil has it's purpose in this life. It is about a deeper meanings to millions of more people than what it is to you a person who was never a slave.
Quakers established the first slavery free states when they left Europe looking to practise their reformed religion alone. The British crown made them lift this ban for English slaves. In 1776 and 1777 3 new England states were the first ever to ban slavery permanently.
Christianity started abolition
Username checks out!!
Don't make me blush!!!
You need common values to function and prosper. Societies embracing a God is a manifestation thereof. This is why you can not have a society where everyone has their own God, or none at all. As we see al around us day in day out.
https://youtu.be/xcCcHtqzQvs
"It is difficult to free people from the chains they revere." I think about this Voltaire quote whenever I hear people talk about the NFL, NBA, etc etc.
Wow I haven't heard that one before. It kinda makes me sad to know I am nowhere near that level of very stable genius but, I am glad that there are truly great men among us!
Or more truthfully and accurately, "All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify." or "Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial." 1 Corinthians 10:23
Thanks man! I never read this verse before thanks!
Don't learn from Voltaire. ha, it's better to learn from God. :D
Everyone has their place. The word of God was given to us through men so, you are listening to sinners speak the word of God
We always listen to sinners speak the Word, unless He is the Word Himself, Jesus. Nonetheless, sinners speak the Word of God, inspired by God and delivered by God and uses the sinner as a conduit.
Buddhists have no problem with no god.
I have no problem with other people peacefully practicing any religion...
I have problems with slavers and, those who raise their hands against the innocent.
Proselytizing through violence is wrong.
The crusades were against an empire that had been the aggressor for hundreds of years and, had banned the centuries old right of pilgrimages to the holy land being denied.
In regards to other religions I take from C. S. Lewis where he talks about this directly in this book. I cannot remember or find where though. I do apologize and, understand if you don't wanna read a few hundred pages to find it.
https://youtu.be/J92gQDZ4dL8
I should read a few hundred pages to find it but I'm too lazy and have too many distractions and dreams. I should read it.
Hey the book isn't going anywhere. They only get used like .01% of their lives anyway.
I am not kidding though, I listened to rational and logical arguments that brought me back to believing in God.
God: In this world, everyone is mixed up together and there are restrictions. But in the afterlife you are all separated and put with people who think and act like you do, and anything goes, even if I don’t approve of it
Every person is given moral agency. That is what separates us from animals. God gives them every opportunity and temptation. He let's them choose to be villains or, heroes.
The fact that you keep pushing moral relativism proves you are still brainwashed by the communists.
"Without God, everything is permitted" is a factual statement that is beyond you brainwashed minds comprehension.
Atheists are incapable of creating a moral system without religion.
Hes right
Turns out I wasn't...
This was a Dostoyevsky quote
Even with God, other countries can do anything they want. Christianity also didn't stand up for our churches during the shutdowns. Obviously, there's a better answer. Americans need to decentralize and fix this. Now.
No they cant that's why I posted a crusade meme.
The first Christians in the bible practiced in secret under threat of death. We are just smart enough to gather in secret people's houses so the govt doesn't know better.
There is no better answer than God.
"If there were no God, it would be necessary to create one" Voltaire"
I was atheist. I came back to God through reason.
https://youtu.be/ZB9bMFjHlYo
So your group of fellow Christians stopped the shut downs? I didn't see it, do you have a link?
Why would Christians practicing in secret apply now in 2020? Some churches may have gathered that way but from what I saw, it was just a bunch of Zoom meetings. I wouldn't call that meeting in secret. "They won't let us meet at church so..." no, churches need to work together and stay open together.
Those philosophical points are very loaded. Voltaire assumes God in a vacuum, while Russell assumed a teapot. We also have human Gods like in North Korea. I'll argue what happens is a function of who is in charge more than a specific religion. What would the majority of a population do over time if they were required atheistically to say they die completely at the end of their physical life? They would say just that.
It also doesn't take away from the fact that all Americans, Christian or not, need to stand up together.
Most Christians have families to take care of. You can't do that from jail.
Why didn't atheist stop the lockdowns if, they don't need God to guide them why, didn't they fight back?
Most atheists are for the lockdowns.
Is it unfair to judge whole groups at once?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5093160002
Atheists have a stumbling block; they don't have a church nor are they even remotely organized. Plus, atheists will need to come to terms with morality, ethics, and doctrine. These issues can and should be resolved considering the alternative of losing Rights.
The point of the above quote is to pint out that it is impossible for atheists to come to terms with morality.
I disagree because of the assumptions, such as suffering has purpose or Pascal's wager.
Atheists living a moral doctrine may act to end suffering instead of allowing it to happen.
With Pascal's wager, God may actually not want us to worship him, like to enjoy our time here in this universe rather than waste time on our knees.
Not all suffering has purpose to you or, I or, the sufferer. The suffering of some people has profound effects for people who do not feel it. Suffering you choose to undertake to better this world is a sacrifice of your time to obeying the moral law.
Sacrificing to earn something is what gives it meaning. The more sacrifice the greater the reward. When you sacrifice your time to be great at something it gives more meaning to that achievement.
I do believe there are atheists that behave as very good people as often and more often than any other Joe Blow Christian. This is directly addressed in Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis. If God allows people to do bad things and become bad people they also have the chance to stop their ways and, start acting better. This means that there are many Christians who are at very different points in their spiritual journey that is meant to play out over their lifetime.
I don't think you should solely base your belief on that wager and, it isn't a broad enough framework to fit my rationale for believing in God. I believe you do have a point and, the bible does talk about this. The Sabbath is for God and, the rest of the week you have to do your best to make life better for those around you.
Get this blasphemous stuff out of here. Trump isn't God.
I don't feel this to be blasphemous in the slightest. He is pictured as a king leading the crusade. Those men were sinners like the rest of us. I am elevating him to the status of crusader not God...
Holy shit, this was a redpill.
Thanks
No, I am not saying that. Dostoyevsky was saying atheists are literally incapable of integrating a morality into their lives. There can be no morality without a source of morality.
I am suggesting you adopt the holy spirit into your heart and, live as a child of God. If you do that, all who stand in your way will habe been put there as tests.
Jesus: What the hell is wrong with so many of you “Christians”. I gave all sorts of examples about love being the way and practised what I preach, and what do you do? Act like Pharisees and follow the doctrines of a man who claimed to have seen me on the road to Damascus without any evidence
Ooo, are we venturing into St. Paul critiques? Bold move.
Someone's got their eyes open.
Don't push him, he'll hurt himself trying to hard
Are you salty because, there is no moral system thag can be created without a pure moral source?
I do not claim to be as smart as Dostoyevsky but, I agree with him completely.
I was atheist and, I reasoned my way out of that fog of nonsense and hypocrisy.
https://youtu.be/ZB9bMFjHlYo
Are you a christian? What is it that lead you to believe Paul is a false apostle? This is the same conclusion I have come to.
Not OP, but if read what Paul wrote, it's a whole lot different from what Jesus said.
He also begins laying down rules of do and don't, reward and punishment, which arguably is what Jesus' blood sacrifice was supposed to move us away from.
It's the same tit-for-tat codification of behavior that you see in Judasim and Islam. And it's very telling that most (all?) of the objections non-Christians have to Christianity stem from either the Old Testament or St. Paul. Why are all those problems from sections of the Bible that don't involve Jesus directly?
The reason Paul had to start spelling out some rules is only because Christianity was spreading far and wide. Some distant groups were coming up with their own heresies and rules, so Paul was instructing the fellow apostles on what to do.
We have to warm them up slowly. No one can do it all at once. They are on their own path and, will come back to God when they are ready!