Well, we have now had millions of actual humans vaccinated, actual deaths that are verifiably attributed to the vaccine are exceedingly small. Dying with covid is not necessarily dying of Covid, and dying after taking the vaccine is not necessarily dying from the vaccine. Or have we already forgotten the media manipulation of the virus that occurred last year?

Every drug always has people who develop a severe reaction to it and die. The question is whether people are dying above the expected number of deaths. You're looking at studies done with these therapies a decade ago, but technology moves at a very fast pace. This vaccine has been studied in clinical trials before mass vaccination, and mass vaccination can be looked at as a giant clinical trial. Short term, it is safe. This is a fact that is not debatable. Long term does not exist yet.

I find it amazing how many people here are pulling for this vaccine to fail. Why? So you can have your "I told you so" moment? Think about someone besides yourself and your own ego. Every covid patient I have intubated, in the back of my mind I knew that I was very likely to be the last human being that person will ever interact with. If we have a safe and effective vaccine, what's the problem? If you don't want to take it, don't take it. Wait and see, or don't take it at all. Nobody should be forced into it. You should decide for yourself what the risk is. But don't judge others because they think differently from you. Because that makes us no different from the left. It's a harsh truth that many people here need to understand. You're not helping anybody by claiming it is dangerous based on something you read from an animal trial done a decade ago. Or even 5 years ago. While ignoring the data that is pouring out today.

Edit: this is directed to the general public here, not necessarily at you.

I have heard of these instances. Not saying it can't or doesn't happen here, but it is extremely stupid on the part of his boss. Even hospitals don't force their employees to have the vaccine. The repercussions are usually mandatory masks, but we have mandatory masks anyways.

No, it doesn't. It uses a viral vector to get the RNA into the cells. But it's not a covid virus, just a vector to inject the mRNA. Think of it as a delivery vehicle. It just happens to be a virus because a virus is already designed to inject genetic meterial into cells.

In other countries, that is probably true. If any company based in the US will try that, they open themselves up to litigation. I doubt that will happen here on a significant scale.

Viruses replicate by injecting their DNA or RNA, depending on the virus into your cells, and use your own cellular machinery to manufacture and package new viruses.

This vaccine likely uses an inactivated virus vector to inject the mRNA that encodes the viral spike protein into your cells, and uses your cellular machinery to manufacture that protein. Your immune system recognized that protein as foreign and manufactures defenses against it. Antibodies, t-cells, etc. That way, if you come in contact with the actual virus, it immediately gets attacked by your own defenses that the vaccine primed for you.

That's how it works. If people believe it's gene therapy, then getting the cold or the flu is also gene therapy. It's not. Don't listen to the nonsense. Look at your own risks (yourself, your close contacts), and decide whether to take it, wait a year or 2, or doesn't take it all. I haven't taken it yet. I had covid at least once, I'm fine. I will probably take it sometime in the future. Because if it is safe long term, what's the downside?

I agree, the decision is yours. In the short term, the vaccine IS safe. It isn't genetic manipulatiom, gene therapy, or anything of the sort. It takes advantage of the same mechanism viruses in the wild utilize to copy themselves using your own cellular machinery (ribosome). There are standard side effects, like with any drug, and they aren't any different or more severe than any other vaccine. This vaccine will make you feel like crap for a day or so. There are no long term studies or data yet, to say that it is completely safe. So the decision is yours. I personally know over 100 people who took the vaccine from various companies. They are all completely fine.

I don't need an organization that exists for the sole reason being that they are old or established. I'm also not paying money for them to piss off liberals by their existence, without actually doing anything to piss off liberals. Their stated purpose isn't to teach firearms courses either.

In my state, I have seen my gun rights massively curtailed under their watchful eye. But I keep seeing them proclaim the court victories in Montana and other gun friendly places. So truth be told, I don't know what I'm paying them money for. They didn't stand up for Kyle, turned tail and ran out of NY (their home state), but they keep sending me their doom and gloom letters that the only way to prevent the radical anti gun agenda is if send them more money. They botched the NYSRPA lawsuit against NYC. They had one shot to undo a decade of assaults against the second amendment, and they couldn't get a friendly Supreme Court to hear the case. I'm done with them. You want my dollars? Show me you can win. And don't win token victories either in states where I could in front of a court and win (not a lawyer).

The funny thing is that you think that I care about your opinion or anyone else here. There are very few people who's opinion matters to me. I will forget about you tomorrow. I'm just toying with you at this point. Keep going, or stop, I couldn't care less. Once I walk away from this conversation, I am not going to think about it or you again.

The smell of desperation is strong with you. So here, take an upvote.

Hahaha, thanks for the laugh. But I have work in the morning. Re-read this thread. There is a lot of life advice for you here. You're going to need all the help you can get sport.

What? What in the world are you talking about? What argument did I make? My OP was just facts. No argument, no opinion. The rest is literally just me and you going back and forth. It's like talking to a child.

Lol, I have no idea what you are talking about. Although that South park episode was good. I came here from r/The_Donald just like everyone else. I am not on reddit since TD was shut down. I never had a reddit account.

So now we moved to anyone who doesn't outright reject the vaccine as evil incarnate is a far left shill. Ok, whatever helps you sleep at night I guess. If you are still not clear on my stance on the vaccine, please re-read my above posts. It is pretty clear. But you are just proving my point. Keep digging.

Aww, did I hurt your feelings? Triggered much? See my post above about thinking with your emotions? Point proven again. You are looking for biases that don't exist because you are trying to affirm an opinion that you currently hold. And you are probably hoping someone here comes to your aid. Don't worry, you're in the majority on this site. Plenty of people here will pat you on the back. I made my opinions on the vaccine pretty clear. It is and should be your decision. That's my conclusion. I don't hide it. You don't need to look hard to find my opinion on the vaccine, it is literally in 2 of the posts on this thread. Where is the bias? Because I don't tow the line here that the vaccine is the mark of the beast of some such nonsense? But please, keep digging deeper. I am still amused. I'll get bored eventually, but we're not there yet.

My opinions from other posts is irrelevant to this one. Although it has always been consistent. You need to weigh your own risk vs benefit and decide for yourself whether the vaccine is for for you. I have always maintained this. The vaccine has been offered to me multiple times, I have not taken it. Perhaps I will later, I would like to see more long term data before I decide. I also had Covid. But it doesn't follow along with the dogma on this site and tends to trigger people who think and rationalize with their emotions and feelings, such as yourself.

There is zero opinion in my original post, just facts. You may not like it, but that's irrelevant also. Facts aren't right or wrong, they are what they are. Heed my advice and grow up. Or don't, and keep digging. I find you rather amusing.

See, this is the kind of garbage I'm talking about. Nowhere in my post did I say that you should take (or not take it). I never mentioned or implied anything about that. I never said the information is bad or good, valid or invalid. I only provided context for the information provided by the OP. No opinion, just fact. We claim that the other side is a cult, when we're really no different. Just on the other end. So thank you for proving my point. Didn't take long (I didn't expect it to). Grow up. Or learn reading comprehension. Or both. Perhaps you may actually learn something from the people on the forum who actually know the topics at hand.

There is something very important to keep in mind here. This is a self-reporting system. The US has a similar system. It doesn't take long to find this disclaimer:

The information on this website relates to suspected side effects , i.e. medical events that have been observed following the use of a medicine, but which are not necessarily related to or caused by the medicine.

Information on suspected side effects should not be interpreted as meaning that the medicine or the active substance causes the observed effect or is unsafe to use. Only a detailed evaluation and scientific assessment of all available data allows for robust conclusions to be drawn on the benefits and risks of a medicine.

The European Medicines Agency publishes these data so that its stakeholders, including the general public, can access information that European regulatory authorities use to review the safety of a medicine or active substance. Transparency is a key guiding principle of the Agency.

http://www.adrreports.eu/en/index.html

I'm only posting this for the sake of transparency and providing information, because the OP provides an incomplete picture. There are many things to take into account here, but this system works as follows: I took a vaccine (or any medicine really), I had a reaction (related or not), I report it to the system. It is an important system that gives researchers information that they may follow up on, but the above disclaimer is very important. The takeaway is that with any mass-administered substance, you will have a large number of reports.

Edit: This post doesn't follow the dogma related to vaccines on this website (vaccine bad, orange man bad for pushing for creation of vaccine, facts challenging dogma bad). Bring on the downvotes, lol.

Yep, this. Or powder. Or bullets. Or anything really.

And therein lies the rub. They aren't lying to you in some misguided attempt to protect you. They are lying to you to keep the ruse going. They have not yet extracted maximal political benefit that this virus provides them. The masks aren't there to keep you safe, they are there to keep you afraid (read:compliant). And it works so damn well, that they were able to pull off the biggest election heist in world history. So why stop now. The vaccine is great and all, and it will probably keep the virus under control. Whether it's necessary is something that every individual should have to right to decide for themselves. But the weapon that this virus truly is is way too valuable to give up so soon. Everyone who tells you that the vaccine doesn't prevent spread is one of 2 things: an idiot, or a politician. Just my humble opinion. The flu vaccine prevents spread (nobody has ever claimed otherwise), but the covid vaccine does not? The virus spreads on exactly the same way, respiratory droplets, and is about as deadly in roughly the same populations. Used to be more deadly, but we have better drugs, including the protocol you mentioned.

Most of your post is not wrong.

But the vaccine is a vaccine. The current data is showing that it does protect you from getting infected. Of course this is provided that the vaccine is effective against the strain that you may come in contact with. Some brands of the vaccine are better against the new strains than others, and of course whatever new strains emerge remains unknown. This may become like the flu shot. We will make an assumption as to which strains will be prominent this year and make a vaccine based on that. That is what I suspect will ultimately happen.

The need to wear a mask after the vaccine is the thing I have an issue with. It is based on the presumption of asymptomatic spread, which was the justification of mass masking in the first place. That entire concept has been debunked as far as I understand, but of course the mask recommendation continues. What I'm trying to tell you is that this is a political decision, not a medical or public health one. The people that say that you need to continue to wear a mask after get a vaccine may be medical or public health people, but they are politicians first. Yes, something is amiss. You are being lied to by the people that are supposed to protect you.

But this is a vaccine in every sense of the word. It generates an immune response in your body against the biological agent it is designed to protect against. It does it in a novel (although it has been done before) way, but the end result is the same. You can call it a biological agent, which is guess is true. But so is every other vaccine. Every vaccine uses a biological agent to generate an immune response against thay biological agent. The flu vaccine uses viral proteins to accomplish the same thing as the covid vaccine. Except the covid vaccine used your cells to make the proteins. Novel? Yes. Still a vaccine.

I have never said or implied that the vaccine tries to recreate the virus genome. I was talking about the difference between viral replication and the vaccine. The vaccine only generates the spike protein of the virus.

If you're trying to tell me that the vaccine doesn't prevent infection or transmission, then it flies in the face of every vaccine that has ever been made. It doesn't make any sense, and we should be smart enough to know when we're being lied to. And yes, I know that the medical people in power are the ones saying this, and I would be the first one to call them out on their bullshit if given the opportunity. So I don't mean you personally, I'm using "you" to describe the people who peddle this nonsense. These people are politicians first and medical officials second (or third). In fact, studies done in clinical trials of the vaccines (as brief as they are) showed excellent efficacy and prevention of reinfection. Whether asymptomatic people can spread the virus remains to be seen, but curent evidence seems to suggest the answer is no. Vaccinated or not.

It's also ironic how the truth gets you downvoted here. We're not so different from the other side after all. Emotionally driven and politically motivated. Some would even call it a cult...

Everything you said in your post is factually correct. The fact thay you're being downvoted and debated is very concerning. You don't debate facts, you debate ideas

I'm sorry, but nothing in your post correct, and none of what you wrote makes any sense.

That doesn't mean you should take the vaccine. That is always your decision.

Last I checked this is 2021, not 2017. In the early 19th century it was thought humans can't go more than 20 mph without suffocating. It was thought human flight was impossible. 4 years in the 20th century is a long time.

And I did say I am waiting for more safety and efficacy before I make the final decision for myself. But it's easy to selectively ignore a central premise and quote only the part that you don't agree with, right CNN?

The science of using a vector to inject MRNA and use it to manufacture a protein is solid, it works, as has been shown in the current vaccination. And in the short term at the very least, it's safe. Long term remains to be seen. And this is exactly what happens in nature. Your lack of understanding doesn't change anything. But speaking out of your ass in a community is like minded people is easy. I don't disagree with the vast majority of the people here on this because it's easy. I disagree because the arguments against the vaccine presented here are wrong. I'm not saying it's completely safe, that will ultimately be determined later on. I am saying it appears effective, the science works. Make up your own mind, but do it for the right reasons. There are plenty of good reason not to take the vaccine right now, I didn't. But the bullshit being spread on this site should not be a factor in your decision.

Edit: isn't it amazing how polarized we became? God forbid someone who knows the science tries to take a middle ground and suggest that people calling this gene therapy are wrong. Without even suggesting people should take the vaccine. We call the other side a religious cult (they are), but self reflection isn't exactly our forte it seems. Open your mind and maybe you'll actually learn something.

This. This is exactly right. Also, for some reason nobody ever mentions this, but this is also how RNA and DNA viruses naturally replicate. The virus is a vehicle that injects its DNA or RNA into the host cell, where it takes over your cellular machinery to manufacture more viruses. This vaccine takes advantage of this process, probably using an inactivated virus as a vehicle to get the spike protein RNA and use your own cells to manufacture just that protein. It's actually an ingenious invention. This vaccine is no more gene therapy than getting the cold or flu bug (or covid). Like you said, there are many reasons to be cautions, but there are zero reasons to spread this kind of bullshit. The science is solid, I'm waiting for more evidence of safety and efficacy, but I'll probably take it eventually. Because if there is no real risk, I have no reason not to take it. I had covid once, I don't want it again if I can avoid it safely and effectively, and prevent spreading it to my elderly family members.

I don't have kids yet, but that's my understanding. Now, you can always home school, or perhaps a private school if you can find one. That's the illusion of choice. Most people can't home school or afford private school (and probably wouldn't find one that will admit without vaccine records), but the choice technically exists. College is another matter all together.