I’ve seen one, on a Prius. Also saw a Biden face mask lol
Holy shit. I’ve never seen one of those before. Only Biden merch I’ve ever seen so far has been a facemask (lol) and a bumper sticker on a Prius
Who says he was applying significant pressure?
You barely have to apply any pressure at all to cut off blood flow to the brain. You don’t even have to cut off oxygen flow.
Floyd being a fucked up druggie doesn’t really change the situation. You still have a cop who went out of his way to violate department policy and use a restraint that they are trained to know can be dangerous. And he used it until they dropped dead, without any regard for human life.
Again, it doesn’t matter if he directly caused the death or not. There isn’t really any way to know for sure, but he very well could have.
From policy:
The Conscious Neck Restraint may be used against a subject who is actively resisting.
The Unconscious Neck Restraint shall only be applied in the following circumstances: On a subject who is exhibiting active aggression, or; For life saving purposes, or; On a subject who is exhibiting active resistance in order to gain control of the subject; and if lesser attempts at control have been or would likely be ineffective.
Neck restraints shall not be used against subjects who are passively resisting as defined by policy.
If they are not actively resisting, neck restraints cannot be used. Simple as that. If the subject is no longer actively resisting, a neck restraint is no longer justified or allowed by policy. It’s “actively resisting”, not “previously resisted”. It is also clearly supposed to be used to gain control, not as a preventative measure.
Also:
Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints.
After a neck restraint or choke hold has been used on a subject, sworn MPD employees shall keep them under close observation until they are released to medical or other law enforcement personnel.
An officer who has used a neck restraint or choke hold shall inform individuals accepting custody of the subject, that the technique was used on the subject.
Yes, it is classified as non-deadly force because it should be non-deadly. But applying pressure to someone’s neck is inherently risky, and cops are obviously trained to recognize this risk given the guidelines.
And this brings me back to my original point. Chauvin knew this was a risky move, and defied department policy to do it. Complete disregard for human life at best, intent to injure/kill at worst. Either way, Chauvin is a massive pussy and he shouldn’t have ever been a cop.
Thus the question is about whether the neck restraint 1) was justified when Floyd was visibly unconscious (for the last 2-3 minutes according to the transcript)
The neck restraint was no longer justified the moment they had him on the ground and he was no longer actively resisting. It definitely was not justified while unconscious.
Autopsy says otherwise.
The original ME autopsy listed his death and a homicide. Cause of death being “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression”. So it obviously played a role, though how much we will probably never know.
None of the evidence items demonstrate the mens rea
I’d argue the fact that the cop broke department policy to use a restraint that he knew could be fatal is enough intent to charge him.
I think using the neck restraint for 8 minutes and 46 seconds was justified.
Well, it wasn’t. By department policy, neck restraints may only be used on people who are actively resisting. They are not preventative measures, for the exact reason that they can be fatal. Cops know this, yet Chauvin decided to continue applying pressure to an unconscious/dead persons neck for over 4 minutes. It’s a complete disregard for human life at best, intent to injure/kill at worst.
Chauvin is a fucking pussy and deserves everything coming to him.
Was Floyd actively resisting being placed in the car?
I’m not disputing that use of the neck restraint was initially justified
Was he actively resisting while on the ground? We simply don't know that.
Yes, we do. It’s on the original video. He was not actively resisting during that entire 8 minutes. Especially not while he was unconscious/dead
In addition, Chauvin was expecting "Excited Delirium", as Floyd was clearly high as a kite.
This isn’t a free pass for cops to violate department policy. Neck restraints are not preventative, they are used to gain control.
Should Chauvin be tried for murder for this presumed policy violation, especially in absence of any evidence his actions resulted in Floyd's death?
Yes. If he didn’t directly cause Floyd’s death, he very well could have. Cops are trained to know that these restraints can be fatal. Continuing to apply pressure to someone’s neck long after they passed out is not only a blatant violation ti on of policy, but a complete disregard for human life at best. Intent to kill/injure at worst.
They have to be actively resisting to use neck restraints. Can’t do that when you are unconscious/dead
He has to be actively resisting to use neck restraints. How can he do that when he’s unconscious/dead?
Chauvin is still a pussy that violated policy
I'm done here you don't know what you are talking about he is resisting the whole time.
Tell me, how can someone be actively resisting while they are unconscious?
Fucking idiot
I mean, I wouldn’t say it’s entirely the fault of a teenage girl that society pressured into mutilating herself rather than helping her come to terms with her mental issues.
Doesn’t really change the fact that the officer is also a piece of shit that violated department policy.
Lol dude. The department policy was that neck restraints may only be used on people who are actively resisting. It’s pretty cut and dry, you don’t need to be a lawyer to understand basic English. Chauvin blatantly violated department policy. There is no getting around this.
It only takes 30 seconds of having your neck arteries compressed to make you pass out. If it took 7 minutes for him to pass out, it obviously had nothing to do with the knee.
Not if it wasn’t fully compressed. Come on man. And like I said, it doesn’t matter if the death was directly his fault or not. There’s not really any way to know for sure. But what I do know for sure is that the cop is a fat fucking pussy that violated department policy. And if he didn’t kill him, he very well could have. There is no excuse to continue to apply pressure to the neck of someone who has been unconscious for 4 minutes.
What he did violated the existing department policy on use of force. What are you talking about?
Regardless, it doesn’t matter when he died. The cop blatantly violated department policy, and showed zero regard for human life. They know it can be fatal, and they can only use it on someone who is actively resisting.
So we have a cop, who knows the lethality of their actions, to continue to apply pressure to someone’s neck for 8 minutes after he stopped actively resisting, and 4 minutes after he lost consciousness (breaking department policy by a long shot)
Please stop making excuses for this pussy
Dude. What’s irrelevant is when/how he died. What the cop did was a violation of policy, and a complete disregard for human life at best.
They are not allowed to use neck restraints on people who aren’t actively resisting, especially unconscious lol. They know it can be fatal, and he did it for 4 minutes afterwards. There are no excuses. Chauvin is a gigantic pussy.
I hope that common sense does you a lot of good when cops come to take your guns or shut down your business.
I’m sure you’ll make excuses then too.
Making excuses for shitty cops doing shitty things sure will help with that
Intentionally rendering someone unconscious was allowed by policy, if they are actively resisting and they do not believe any other attempt to subdue would be successful.
It definitely does not allow you to continue to apply pressure to someone’s neck long after they lost consciousness. Cops are trained to know these moves can be fatal. It is a complete disregard for human life at best, or intent to kill/injure at worst.
Not trying to split hairs here but I think it is important to not conflate the two.
Fair enough, though I don’t think it’s been determined exactly when he died. From what I heard, he didn’t have a pulse when medics arrived. The fact that he shit himself on the ground leads me to believe that he died during the restraint. But it honestly doesn’t matter, because either way, he was not even close to actively resisting. Cops know that this move can be potentially fatal, the fact that he continued to apply pressure long after he was unconscious is either a complete disregard for human life at best, or an intent to kill/injure at worst.
Now here's where I agree and I think that most do as well.
I’d hope so, but I’ve seen an unfortunate number of people on here saying Chauvin did nothing wrong.
No one is saying Floyd wasn’t a total piece of shit.
I’m just saying the officer was too. Even if he didn’t directly kill Floyd he certainly could have. There is absolutely no reason a cop should be applying force to an unconscious persons neck for over 4 minutes.
And idiotic thinking like that will make sure we end up in a police state.
Oh look, a Chauvin shill
This is pretty terrifying