But to be honest, I believe this conversation has become quite pointless. I think I understand better why you people on the right wing work how you work. But everything after those questions was just an unnecessary stand off between worldviews that will never find a common ground.
This is a twisted display of nature and evolution and truly devoid of any meaningful point. I don't understand the need to make biological facts into a normativ worldview. Unnatural isn't a negative or positiv trait of anything. It might be in your connotation but in reality there isn't any inherent value in "unnatural" and "natural". They just describe some vague idea if things occur with or without a will behind them. I wouldn't agree with people glorifying weakness, but are they wrong to do so? Certainly not. And you are acting as if I was glorifying weakness. I wasn't. Considering we all have weaknesses, I was talking about those, trying to simulate strength. It is okay, if people do this, again no moral value behind this inherently, but just because they are acting as if they were strong, as if they were confident, does this make them strong or confident? On the other hand you can have people who have their flaws, but they work around them or work on them. Or maybe they are just what a larger group would call "unnatural". Maybe they are different and hated not for what they do, but what they are. They don't necessarily are better or stronger than any other person. But no matter if I like what this person is or not, what flaws they have or not, they show strength by not hiding.
Oh also with alpha males, I think this is very subjective. In generel I think a lot of men try to conform to a very stereotypical image of the strong male, because they are too insecure to admit to their soft sides, to their weaknesses or just who they really want to be. Now some men may also just be metaphorical onions. They are like this on the outside and inside. But I've never really seen this in anyone I met who tried to be this image. They all just seemed to hide behind it. I do think that I'm right with how I observe this behavior, but it obviously is just from personal experience which can be flawed.
Germany has guilt. This is indisputable. Why is that? Because it is a country with an ongoing identity as Germany. A country itself doesn't die like regular people therefor its history stays part of it.The only thing that can change this is the fall/death of the old country and centuries of a new country. Or forgetting and ignoring. But that is a very shameful way. That is why I talked about personal responsibility but national guilt. Because no individual bears this misconception of what is the so called "German guilt". Now I want to talk about responsibility. Responsibility can mean a special duty that comes with a certain position. This position can be a very special one like being the president. The president has to take a lot of responsibility for things that are not him. But it can also just be being a part of a group. I am German. Now I hope that everyone works towards not having a second holocaust and this should just be common sense, yes. Still as I consider my nations history, I have a special position as a German person. So what do I do? I stand up when minorities are attacked. I informed myself about our history and became critical of what lead to the holocaust. I visited different concentration camps and learned about the horrifying history of them. Now I want to ask you, do you really think we share the same responsibility? Do you feel the responsibility to learn about the victims? Do you feel the responsibility to be critical of nationalism as root cause of the holocaust? Do you learn about what the fundamental believes of the NS were? Social Darwinism? Führerkult? Absolute conformity? Do you plan to visit concentration camps if you visit Europe? Now, you can tell me that I can't take responsibilities for history, just because I have no fault for what happened. But tbh in the definition of responsibility I don't see an explicit need for fault. Responsibilities come with your circumstances. So I will just do exactly that and take responsibility. I don't need your permission to take it. Also yes, the American constitution is pretty amazing considering its age.
I am not ashamed of being German. It seems unfeasible to some people, that one can be proud to be self critical. That you can love your country yet not glorify it. My country brought one of the worst terrors of history into the world. And I will stand for my country and take responsibility that this doesn't happen again. I do so with a straight back. Does this sound like it comes from an ashamed man? Look down on this culture all you want, to accept weakness and turn it into something to move ahead from is strength. Turning a blind eye to history, not acknowledging the faults of the country and take responsibility for them, blind patriotism these things are not only the way of delusion. It's also the way of insecurity. This also works for people. Do you really think, the truly self confident person cares about the self proclaimed alpha male? They don't.
A fun thing: Communists like the guillotine, people one the right wing like to see people hanging.
Communists think, the system is rigged against them. Not as much as the MAGA movement atm. but in general just as much. This is why they call for a revolution. (of course they would accomplish it per democracy if the system wasn't rigged cough) To me this revolution is no better or worse than the overthrow this forum seems to deem just just because it is their side.
Just as this forum they act as if they had the majority of people behind them. Actually neither one has.
There is a categorical blind eye some ideologies on the left throw to scientific problems but I am confused why they don't just admit to them. For example in Germany it is said "there is no race". Instead of admitting, that this makes no sense if you compare it to biological similar phenomenons (races of dogs, horses etc.) but is ideological important to see all ethnical differences as something superficial and stupid, they try to make it a biological argument. Both sides call each other hypocritical. But from what I've seen this is worse on the right winged side, where not even trying to accomplish some moral goal is seen as not hypocritcal so morally above trying to accomplish a goal but being involved in hypocrisy by not fully implementing the moral standard. That one is baffling to me tbh.
People on the socialist spectrum have truly confusing ideas of systems and it is really hard to understand what they actually want. Especially in gender questions it's a hot mess.
I see the far left (apart from the extrem) to be way more self critical and open to opinions. But there are touchy subjects with a big no-no button and they are usually unbeliveably silly. Like feminism in which you have to be super careful or for some the question of Jerusalem. (like people not even living in Jerusalem, it is really random).
Just some random observations.
I double dare you to challenge me on German history and its interpretation. Acting as if Germans were tricked by an evil dictator could maybe be received as well meant to a German person as it reliefs our historic responsibility and guilt. (guilt only as a country not as indvidual though) But we weren't tricked. Hitler lay his plans bare long before he was elected. He wrote them down for the world to see and now you can buy the damn book and see, what he published to everyone, before then proceeding to execute it. There were errors in the system, but reducing them to us Germans not owning guns is like spitting into the face of our culture of reflecting on these matters as well as spitting on our current system. I have made my peace with Americans to me inexplainable desire to own weapons. But I am very happy to live in a society where I don't need to be scared of any psycho owning a weapon. I will gladly forfeit any right to own a weapon to live in such a society. Now for you it may be different, but then it is good that you live in a country that allows them and I don't. You can feel safe in yours, I in mine. And when it comes to evil dictators, the best approach imo is to not elect them. Honestly, how do you think will an armed population defend against the dictator they elected themselves? There will be just as many armed people in favor of the dictator. Let me make this very clear: There is no dictator elected by accident. An election is a process to make sure a people gets the leadership they deserve. (quoted from someone I forgot) So yeah, I hope you now know, why I didn't wanna continue this. We have our differences and I wanted to explore the thoughts behind them. But I really don't think we can have a peaceful talk about ideologies. Especially not when an American person tries to tell me, that Hitler took over and wasn't voted out again because of a lack of privately owned weapons. There is no parallel of significance in the election of Hitler and of your quarrel in the USA. Let me make this very clear: Hitler is a time of terror and 75 years after it, we Germans still work on processing it (although people start forgetting sadly). Your side and your fight will be remembered at best. It will turn up as an event in a history channel within a bigger picture of the time. I know that you will not believe me, but your loss is of little significance. I don't know in which direction this significance goes, but it is really, really not that big. I/my party has lost several elections in my life, crushingly so, and I do feel you. It is hard and it is harsh. But in the end you will survive it. You can make fun of me or my country, you can say things I disagree with, but I want to warn you to ever again abuse German history to promote your political agenda in front of me or likeminded people.
It's fun to read this. I'm not really infiltrating but just an outsider affiliated with neither "side". So maybe you can see how this is ironic to me. Because of every misconception they have about you, you have a misconception about them (among others). They will say, that you've been brainwashed in echo-chambers. Just as you are divided they are divided now. What weird spectacle it is, to see one feminist argue if transgender is against feminism. This division you guys experience just means, that you don't agree. Same as them. Feel free to try to unite but honestly you'd just need to sort it all out and reach an agreement. As traitor is screamed here to everyone atm. this is not likely to happen very soon, but I honestly don't care if it happens. As you crown your martyrers that died for the cause as today, they crown their. As you think they just need to "redpill" they think you ignorant of truth and science. You can try to make this common politcal occurance into a matter of strategic warfare. It will not help your side but feel free to try.
Well I think at this point I'm too tempted to go into an argument how I see collectivism and individualism. Also in Germany there is an overwhelming majority, that doesn't believe in wide scale voter fraud. But I guess since Trump is less beneficial for us than Biden, we can't really make a point about this and expect to be believable. So yeah ... I guess instead I'll just thank you for your time and answers. It really helps me, to understand "the other side". :) Have a nice day and even if you don't believe me now, I genuinely believe your side will win again, although it is not "my side".
I think this is very interesting because in a rather left leaning family this is how we talk about the "right wing". We use similar words to describe it as well, especially truth and science and common sense. Now I don't wanna evoke a believes discussion as I created this post to open and broaden my view. But maybe I can share in one thing my perspective on a topic, because it is dear to me. I love nature. And I do believe, that it is robbed of me, due to climate change. We have an orchard at home that is lovely, yet we need to water more every year. I can see the nature aching under the pressure of industrialization. As a consequence I have studied environmental ethics and I decided to mostly leave meat out of my diet (among other things). Now, this is a personal choice. I hope to inspire, but not force others to live my way. But I like eating meat, it was nearly all I ate when I was younger. Yet I sacrificed. I know that even this probably involves some form of hypocrisy. And also you maybe think my premise - for climate change to exist - is wrong. But in all this, I've stayed true to my believe. I know there are a lot people like me on the left side out there. Don't take this the wrong way, by all means keep your ideas about this topic, it's not what this is about. I just feel the topic of climate change has become very degrading for people like me truly wanting to change our way with nature for the better. So this is a poor try to make ourselves better understood. We just truly think that we need to take better care of the environment because in our worldview it would be immoral not to. I hope this wasn't uncalled for, I know that nobody asked for this perspective.
I thank you for your effort with this elaborate answer. How would you react being confronted with your own ... let me say "methodology" so to speak. So let's say that I went to a communist reddit and asked, if they thought the "other side" (so what they see you on) evil or just to be acting evil out of good will. They might respond with the exact same thing. How comes we all are so sure about being on the right side?
Also if I can, I want to take some of your worries. Let me be frank, I don't really agree with republicans, the MAGA movement or whatever the newest group definition is. Also I don't think the specific ideology this forum has taken on will ever completely win. But still it will shift again. This is a mere blink in the history of politics. The communist spoken about here haven't won, they didn't even come close. Bernie Sanders is a moderate for them and even he didn't win so Biden is like far behind 3rd choice for communists. Same with the people in the senate. What I want to say is: Let's presume your ideology is the right one. Collectivism is inherently evil and bad. It will not doom your country. These forces you fear are for too diverse within themselves to make a communist state. If you are right there will be damage done, but it will be very bearable, as long as you don't make the factual existence of damage a source of pain itself. Maybe it will need a year, maybe a decade but eventually the tide will turn again. Although it likely will never completely go your way, it'll be closer again and you will have victories again.
Would you say the left side is evil? Or would you say they do evil but have good intentions? Or something inbetween? How would you differentiate within the left side? Or are they all the same? Because from an outer perspective your political left at least looks very tame and conservative. But I say this with full knowledge to not be able to see it from within.
I like this comment a lot. Yet it occurs to me, you still hate what I'll call "the other side" more, right? Do you see this group you follow as one that only allows for one way, the way that is the consensus? Or would you say critical self reflecting thoughts are welcomed?
Let me make a thing very clear: When you are out of bullets you are fucking late to get out of there. When you notice you don‘t have a lot left that is when you use your remaining ammo to cover your retreat. Then you can fight another day. Maybe there is no honor in cowardice but neither is in stupidity. I mean ... by all means, I‘m just watching you guys. Go ahead, fight „to the death“ for some imaginary honor and heroism. I honestly think the longer you keep this high the more devastating will the loss be. Amuse me. Prove me wrong.