THE_MAGAL0RIAN 2 points ago +2 / -0

Reply 2 of 2:

In summary, according to the Quran, Hadith and Islamic law, a woman may indeed have physical harm done to her if the circumstances warrant, with one such allowance being in the case of disobedience. This certainly does not mean that all Muslim men beat their wives, only that Islam permits them to do so.

From observation, it would appear that those Muslims who do hit their spouse probably do so for the same reasons non-Muslims do - out of anger and in the moment - rather than a calculated attempt to comply with religious teachings. Honor killings are a notable exception.

Additional Notes:

According to the DOJ (1, 2), about two dozen honor killings occur in the United States each year. In 91% of the cases, the victim is perceived as being "too Westernized."

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 2 points ago +2 / -0

u/Bot-not wrote:

"Domestic violence occurs in all cultures, but only in Islam is it CLAIMED to have divine sanction."

1 of 2:

Does Islam allow a man to hit his wife?

Yes, but only if she doesn't do as he tells her. The beating must stop if the woman complies with her husband's demands. Behind verbal abuse and abandonment, beating is intended as last resort solution to coerce submission. According her testimony in the Hadith, Muhammad physically struck his favorite wife for leaving the house without his permission. It is not known how he treated his less-favored wives.

The Qur’an teaches that men are superior to women and should beat those from whom they “fear disobedience”: “Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.” — Qur’an 4:34

Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).

Muhammad’s child bride, Aisha, says in a hadith that Muhammad “struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: ‘Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?’” — Sahih Muslim 2127

Sahih Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged him to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Sahih Bukhari (72:715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'" Muhammad's own wife complained Muslim women were abused worse than other women.

An another hadith states: “Rifaa divorced his wife whereupon AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. `Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah’s Messenger came, Aisha said, ‘I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!’” — Sahih Bukhari 7.77.5825

Sahih Muslim (9:3506) - Muhammad's fathers-in-law (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him by slapping his wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him. According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.

Abu Dawud (2141) - "Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them." (This is graded sahih - authentic. It is also reported in Sunan Ibn Majah 9:1985, also graded sahih) At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives. As the hadith indicates, he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. Beatings in a Muslim marriage were deemed necessary at times to keep the woman in her place.

Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife." The authenticity of this chain of narration is characterized as daif (weak), however, a similar verse from Sunan Ibn Majah 3:9:1986 is said to be hasan (sufficient).

Abu Dawud (2126) - "A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: 'I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).' The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: 'She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her'" A Muslim man thinks he is getting a virgin for a wife, then finds out that she is pregnant. Muhammad tells him to treat the woman as a sex slave and then flog her after she delivers the child. (Despite multiple chains of narration, this hadith is graded as daif).

Sahih Bukhari (82:828) - Though not the beating of a wife, Aisha narrates how her father, the first "rightly guided caliph" hit her violently as a form of rebuke when she was in bed: "Abu Bakr came to towards me and struck me violently with his fist and said, 'You have detained the people because of your necklace'. But I remained motionless as if I was dead... although that hit was very painful"

Ibn Ishaq/Hisham 969 - Requires that a married woman be "put in a separate room and beaten lightly" if she "act in a sexual manner toward others." According to the Hadith, this can be for an offense as petty as merely being alone with a man to whom she is not related.

Kash-shaf (the revealer) of al-Zamkhshari (Vol. 1, p. 525) - [Muhammad said] "Hang up your scourge where your wife can see it"

Reliance of the Traveller (Islamic Law) M10.11 - Dealing with a Rebellious Wife - When a husband notices signs of rebelliousness in his wife (whether in words, as when she answers him coldly when she used to do so politely, or he asks her to come to bed and she refuses, contrary to her usual habit; or whether in acts, as when he finds her averse to him when she was previously kind and cheerful), he warns her in words ("Your obeying me is religiously obligatory''). If she commits rebelliousness, he keeps from sleeping (having sex) with her without words, and may hit her, but not in a way that injures her... it is permissible for him to hit her he believes that hitting her will bring her back to the right path

Contemporary apologists often squirm over this relatively straightforward verse from the Quran (4:34) - which gives men the right to beat their wives if they have even a "fear" of disloyalty or disobedience. Their rhetorical aerobics inspired us to write a separate article:

Wife Beating- Good Enough for Muhammad, Good Enough for You

Others are not nearly as squeamish. Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradhawi, one of the most respected Muslim clerics in the world, once made the famous (and somewhat ridiculous statement) that "It is forbidden to beat the woman, unless it is necessary." He went on to say that "one may beat only to safeguard Islamic behavior," leaving no doubt that wife-beating is a matter of religious sanction. (source)

Dr. Muzammil Saddiqi, the former president of ISNA (the Islamic Society of North America), a mainstream Muslim organization, says it is important that a wife "recognizes the authority of her husband in the house" and that he may use physical force if he is "sure it would improve the situation." (source)

Sharia expert, Ahmad al-Farjabi teaches that some women must be "subdued by muscle," as beating them is preferable to letting them break up a happy Muslim home. (source)

Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Muhammad Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, the head of Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam's most prestigious institution says that "light beatings" and "punching" are part of a program to "reform the wife" (source).

CAIR's Dr. Jamal Badawi endorses corporal punishment as "another measure that may save the marriage" (source). He doesn't make clear how striking a woman will make her more inclined to stay with her assailant, unless Badawi is implying that the beating instills a fear of more serious consequences should she attempt to leave.

Egyptian cleric, Abd al-Rahman Mansour, said in a 2012 televised broadcast that, in addition to discouraging the wife from filing divorce, beatings would inspire the wife to "treat him with kindness and respect, and know that her husband has a higher status than her." (source)

During Ramadan of 2010, another cleric named Sa'd Arafat actually said the woman is "honored" by the beating (source). No one else seemed terribly surprised or upset by this.

An undercover report from progressive Sweden in 2012 visited 10 mosques and found that 6 actually advised beaten women not to report the abuse to the police. These women were also told that they must submit to non-consensual 'sex' with their husbands. (source)

In the birthplace of Islam, about half of Saudi women are beaten at home. "Hands and sticks were found to be used mostly in beating women, following by men’s head cover and to a lesser extent, sharp objects." (source)

In 2016, the Council of Islamic Ideology proposed a bill - ironically named the Protection of Women against Violence Act - that actually included exceptions for "lightly beating" defiant wives. (source)

Turkey's top religious authority issued a fatwa in 2020 that advised women to accept domestic abuse rather than go to the police: "If your husband attempts to hit you, ask him (why) - in an appropriate language. Because this isn’t a very big problem, you can solve it by discussion." The mufti's office adopted a patronizing tone, suggesting that, "if (he) hits you, don’t react. Remove yourself from the environment and go to your room." (source)

According to Islamic law (Sharia), a husband may strike his wife for any one of the following four reasons:

  • She does not attempt to make herself beautiful for him (ie. "let's herself go")
  • She refuses to meet his sexual demands
  • She leaves the house without his permission or for a "legitimate reason"
  • She neglects her religious duties Any of these are also sufficient grounds for divorcing her.

As with Islamic terror and other Muslim dysfunction, there is a trend toward blaming non-Muslims for physical abuse with Islamic families. Though quite a stretch, Samina Yasmeen, a professor in Australia stated that "Islamophobia" is to blame.

Respected Quran scholars in the past interpreted verse 4:34 with impressive candor. Tabari said that it means to "admonish them, but if they refused to repent, then tie them up in their homes and beat them until they obey Allah’s commands toward you." Qurtubi told wife-beaters to avoid breaking bones, if possible, but added that "it is not a crime if it leads to death." (source)

Present-day apologists sometimes say that Muhammad ordered that women not be harmed, but they are basing this on what he said before or during a battle, such as in Bukhari (59:447) when Muhammad issued an order for all the men of Qurayza be killed and the women and children taken as slaves. (Killing a woman's husband and forcing her into sexual slavery apparently doesn't qualify as "harm" under the Islamic model).

In fact, there are a number of cases in which Muhammad did have women killed in the most brutal fashion. One was Asma bint Marwan, a mother or five, who wrote a poem criticizing the Medinans for accepting Muhammad after he had ordered the murder of an elderly man. In this case, the prophet's assassins literally pulled a nursing infant from her breast and stabbed her to death.

After taking Mecca in 630, Muhammad also ordered the murder of a slave girl who had merely made up songs mocking him. The Hadith are rife with accounts of women planted in the ground on Muhammad's command and pelted to death with stones for sexual immorality - yet the prophet of Islam actually encouraged his own men to rape women captured in battle (Abu Dawood 2150, Muslim 3433) and did not punish them for killing non-Muslim women (as Khalid ibn Walid did on several occasions - see Ibn Ishaq 838 and 856).

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 2 points ago +2 / -0

Islam is not compatible with American values or Western Civilization and no coexistence is possible.

Therefore, Islam must be destroyed.

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 1 point ago +1 / -0

u/Jestheter replied to himself:

You can try to bring up fallacies to deflect but at the end of the day. being a hipocrit is still being a bitch.

Are you arguing with yourself? Isn’t your act of invoking a fallacy itself a way to deflect?

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 1 point ago +1 / -0

u/Jestheter wrote:

Denied argument incorrect usage.

[Citation needed]

I brought this up to allow you to critically think, I don't have any skin in the game.

Judicet lector.

I agree with Christian values.

Judicet lector.

He can try to invoke Sharia, doesn't do shit.

The UK already tolerates sharia courts. How long until that civilizational rot leaks to other countries?

Same thing with the gay Wedding cake You can say But my religion... doesn't do shit.


You try to portray me as though I'm defending his actions.

Judicet lector.

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 1 point ago +1 / -0

u/Jestheter said:

I mean pretty much they are.

How can religions be the same given they teach different origins of the universe, different meaning of life, different morality, and different destiny/afterlife?

Every one wants religious freedom but expect a hard stop for other religions people are funny in that way.

Does that include you?

Also funny you bring up their extremes but when Christianity's extremes are brought up you try and distance yourself...

Does the tu quoque fallacy you invoke of attacking Christianity, or me in any way, real or imagined by you, change anything about the fact that this man murdered his wife, invoked sharia law in court, and said that it allowed him to punish her?

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 1 point ago +1 / -0

u/Jestheter said:

I'm simply asking should religious freedom exist or should the government step in.

I’m simply asking are you assuming that all religions are equivalent and that the two choices you present are the only possible options?

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 1 point ago +1 / -0

u/Jestheter said:

Okay so then Every one should have to make gay wedding cakes?

Okay so then everyone should have to make women cover up and be one of four wives and limitless sex slaves, permit enslavement of non-Muslims, kill gays, rape nine year old girls, never eat bacon, give preferential treatment to Muslims in everything, murder all Atheists, and kill other non-Muslims unless they either convert or agree to submit to live as second-class citizens (called dhimmis) and pay a prohibitive tax (called the jizya), just to name a few sharia things?

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 3 points ago +3 / -0

u/Jestheter said:

Are you saying he should be charged and the government should step in? or are you saying people should have religious freedom?

Are you saying that sharia law should be given independence and preferential treatment over established Western laws? Or are you saying people should have freedom from imposition of sharia?

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 1 point ago +1 / -0

Uh....go on. Please be kind. I can only take so much hopium withdrawal.

THE_MAGAL0RIAN 1 point ago +1 / -0

Resubmit this with a clearer title, and mention portatus!

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