Of course it's still in clinical phase 3 trials. It's already been through 1 and 2 and will continue gathering data for several more years. We've known since the start that this was pushed forward at record speed with multiple types of testing done simultaneously to get it out to the public as soon as possible. That doesn't mean we didn't have good data to say it was safe. It means they're going to keep gathering data to improve even more.
Further, it's no surprise that a few people still get some strain of covid even after being vaccinated as vaccine protections are rarely, if ever, 100%. Even with a 99% effective vaccine, you're still going to get 10 people out of every 1,000 who still get it. It's certainly better than nothing, but not perfect. Similar to birth control pills. ~97% effective, but not 100%. But they're still used because 97 is better than 0. Even condoms at 85% are better than nothing etc. So would you rather have a 90% lower chance of getting sick, or 0% lower?
Why is this so hard for people to understand?
Further, specific strains have been isolated, multiple times by several independent labs around the world etc. This idiotic claim plays off the false notion that the virus doesn't really exist and that nobody has been able to isolate and verify it. Again, false. You can try to argue with the facts, but don't pretend they don't exist because you read some ignorant bullshit on social media.
https://fullfact.org/health/Covid-isolated-virus/
You'll even get people trying to talk about Koch's postulates to try to sound smart, but even Koch admitted in his lifetime, a century ago, that they didn't apply to things like viruses and we've definitely long since proven that since his time, which is why they aren't actually used anymore. The above article explains this.
Not actually true.
What they were researching was the mechanisms that cause the viruses to first leap from animals to humans, something very important to understand in preventing future outbreaks of such dangerous viruses. SARS, Swine Flu, Avian Flu, Ebola, HIV, etc.
Sometimes things in science can be dangerous, or can be later misused, but that doesn't mean the research to understand how animal to human transmission happens in the first place is necessarily nefarious or done with the intent to weaponize, etc.
I know "gain of function" is easy to misrepresent to be some evil weaponization thing, but that's not actually what was being studied or why.
Chang?
Hey, if that's the best argument you've gone, like I said, we're done. Glad we at least agree on that.
False. An ad hominem is specifically when an insult is the argument itself. Verbal abuse along with an actual argument and information addressing the point is not an ad hominem.
False. Not gene therapy. Doesn't touch your DNA in any way. You're lying. Stop it.
False. Your cells and plenty of other structures are wrapped in lipids forming liposomes. There are numerous other regulatory mechanisms to control what passes through them etc.
False. I did address it. The vaccines do cause immunity just like existing vaccines. They may not prevent against new strains, just like flu vaccines, but will likely reduce symptoms even then, again just like flu vaccines.
If you're claiming you're a microbiologist I may just die laughing because you have zero clue what you're talking about and are ignorantly repeating false claims you saw on social media.
Where was there an ad hominem? Do you even know what that means?
Further, if you just want to pretend that quotes from Fauci, links to the CDC etc aren't relevant, then I guess the discussion is over because you've made it clear that you're not interested in a reasonable discussion.
Thanks for your time.
You got kinda quiet.
The two COVID-19 vaccines built on the new messenger RNA technology are highly effective in preventing infections of the CCP virus, which causes COVID-19, according to a newly released real-world study.
Vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna reduced the risk of infection by 90 percent two or more weeks after the second vaccination, according to the study.
Both vaccines require two doses spaced several weeks apart. But even one dose of either decreased the risk of infection by 80 percent two or more weeks later, researchers said.
“This study shows that our national vaccination efforts are working. The authorized mRNA COVID-19 vaccines provided early, substantial real-world protection against infection for our nation’s health care personnel, first responders, and other frontline essential workers,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), said in a statement.
Except for everything I actually said and linked to and quoted.
You retard.
Why would I care what Fauci specifically said? He's flip flopped multiple times and doesn't speak for the entire scientific and medical community etc. He literally lied to the American people in order to keep masks available for medical staff. Who the hell would consider him an intellectually honest and trustworthy authority?
This is a retarded straw man. That's why I ignored it.
instead I quoted you from the CDC and could quote numerous other more credible sources saying the same thing and you know it.
Why would you want an ABSOLUTE from FAUCI?
It's a stupid demand and you know it.
But that said, he's said the vaccine provides immunity numerous times. He was hedging his bets on how long the immunity would last, something totally normal with numerous vaccines, like the tetanus one for example, which require periodic booster shots to maintain long term immunity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booster_dose
What Fauci HAS said is that getting vaccinated doesn't mean you're immune from ANY STRAIN of the virus, and that if a new strain develops you could be able to get that strain, as is the case with things like the flu, which is why we need new flu shots each year.
Now, again, Fauci has said other things like arguing against Rand Paul when Paul said that wearing a mask after getting immunity from vaccination was theater, claiming that masks were theater etc... but he's clearly playing PR and pushing half truths and even lies like he did with the Masks lies early on.
But again, Fauci is not the sole arbiter of truth or even an exceptionally reliable source of covid information. You asking for an absolute from him is a retarded red herring meant to distract from a more serious discussion.
Show me a credible paper stating that vaccine affects the formation of the placenta.
It doesn't.
Some early claims were made during early trials about worries between similar proteins, but these have long since been addressed as invalid.
If you have a valid source saying otherwise, share it.
Further, the mRNA itself is harmless. It's either converted to the protein and breaks down or not. It doesn't do anything else.
Further,
mRNA vaccines take advantage of the process that cells use to make proteins in order to trigger an immune response and build immunity to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hcp/mrna-vaccine-basics.html
Show me the original legal definition. Or even the previous definition that you think was fundamentally changed.
Actually quote it for me.
https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/vaccine
Further, this vaccine does provide immunity exactly like a traditional vaccine would. Neither are perfect, with this having a ~95 effectiveness. Look up the effectiveness of previous vaccines for various other pathogens and tell me what they are, because I know for a fact most are not 100%.
You are repeating things you heard without understanding. Things that were not accurate or true to begin with.
The vaccine is like wearing a condom to prevent pregnancy or disease. Not 100% effective, but massively more effective than not wearing one. Or even more accurately, like a woman using the pill to prevent pregnancy. ~97% effective, but not 100%. So you're going to claim that the pill isn't birth control because it's only 97% effective, not 100%? Are you going to claim it's no different than not taking the pill because 97% might as well be 0% because it's not 100%?
Do you see how invalid your argument is?
Look at those legal definitions of vaccine, or quote me one from a credible mainstream source that you think the current vaccines fail to meet. I'd like to see it.
The only difference here is the mechanism of delivering the antigen, the part of the pathogen that the immune system will recognize and remember in order to provide immunity against the whole pathogen in the future. In this case the spike protein. The immune response to the administered antigen and gain of immunity are identical to traditional vaccines.
And?
It's not reading, touching, or changing YOUR genes. So what is your point?
It's a custom mRNA to make a single protein, just like countless other mRNA in your cells right now happily coding numerous proteins etc. We're just telling it exactly which one to make without all the extra crap that would come with doing it "the traditional way", which would mean growing the actual virus in a host cell of some sort and then having to harvest the whole thing, and then try to find a way to inactivate it before we inject more than we need to into you to have your immune system recognize and remember it.
We're just cutting out all the extra cruft to get to the very specific single piece we need that is enough for your immune system to be able to recognize and remember so that it can recognize and clean out the real virus if it shows up.
I'm not disagreeing with much of the rest of the arguments about the government mandating it, vaccine passports, etc.
I'm pointing out that calling it a genetic **modifying **substance, meaning it's claiming that it modifies YOUR genes, is objectively false.
Bullshit on both counts. I just edited my original comment to explain what it does.
Any part of that you don't understand?
It is, by the legal and common definition of a vaccine, a vaccine.
Stop repeating objectively false bullshit you read on social media without understanding.
Again, if there is some part of what I explained that you don't understand, point it out and we'll try to make it clearer for you.
It doesn't modify or even touch your genes. Anyone saying this is an idiot and hasn't even tried to learn about how the vaccine actually works.
For those who need an explanation;
In normal cellular function (not talking about the vaccine yet) a gene is read from your DNA and the instruction in the gene is copied to a bit of messenger RNA. That mRNA is moved out of the nucleus where the DNA is, into the rest of your cell (the cytoplasm) that is like a soup full of various molecules, enzymes, mitochondria, etc... there a ribosome (an enzyme) reads the mRNA and according to its instructions grabs amino acids out of the soup and strings them into a chain. When done the chain folds into a protein. The mRNA then dissolves.
This is what your cells are doing trillions of times a day all the time.
Now in the vaccine, we skip straight to the mRNA step, which we make ourselves to code for a single protein. In this case one protein from the spike on the surface of the coronavirus. Not the whole virus, not enough to rebuild the virus, etc. Just a tiny piece of it that is enough for your immune system to recognize it, remember it, and be able to recognize it again if it shows up as part of the real virus later on so that it can quickly get to work cleaning it out before you get sick.
The mRNA doesn't read your DNA, certainly doesn't change your DNA, doesn't go close to your DNA, etc. It is just read to make a protein just like mRNA is all the time in your cells every day. We're just saying which protein to make. That's it.
There are also no changes to your immune system. This functions just like any other vaccine, which rely on the same method of your immune system recognizing and remembering all (in a weakened or disabled form) or part of a pathogen (in this case called an antigen) in order to be able to recognize it again when the real live version shows up.
All we've done is changed how the antigen gets there. Instead of having to culture the actual virus, which is hard to do because viruses generally need hosts and don't grow on their own like bacteria etc... so you can't really culture a virus, you have to grow them inside host cells and then harvest them etc... instead we're just saying to the cell "hey, make this single protein for me with the mechanisms you already have doing that exact job perfectly well." Because it's a lot easier, faster, and more accurate for us to just do that than to have to grow the whole virus in some other middle man and then harvest it and make sure it's deactivated so it doesn't get you sick, etc.
We cut out all the potentially problematic stuff we don't need and create a very targeted, easy to produce, powerful way to let your immune system learn about a new potential pathogen.
Again, doesn't read your DNA. Doesn't even touch your DNA. Doesn't change your DNA. Doesn't change your immune system. Doesn't CHANGE ANYTHING about your cells or genetics other than your immune system recognizing the end protein and remembering it EXACTLY like it would with a traditional vaccine where the whole or part of the pathogen would be injected into you for the immune system to work on.
Stop spreading the lie of this being genetic modification. It absolutely isn't. It's either ignorant fear mongering, or intentional lies by people who know better... but regardless of the motivation of the person saying it, it's objectively false.
Source? Is this a joke?
While it sounds ridiculous in this context, this has been known for a few years. Women have lower viral loads than men due to estrogen etc. So when women mock men for man flu, they don't understand that men really are sicker.
This news story logically follows from that.
Shoot. Them. At. The. Border.
You need to make it perfectly clear that our sovereignty is non-negotiable and that violators of our border will be shot on sight.
If you want in, you do it by the book at a legal point of entry.
You get seen scaling a fence, you get lead to the noggin and a dirt nap.
And make a 3 strikes rule for invaders that results in the death penalty.
HEAVILY disincentivize these invaders from entering our home without our express permission.
Seeing those commiefornia looking guns in the background is killing me. :(
No. Just sharing his work. His name is in the title and you can find more of his work on gab at https://gab.com/gae
There was a "nice letter" from "elderly and immunocompromised" neighbors on here earlier today, with bold print about the half million who died etc... guilt tripping people into wearing masks even if fully vaccinated, so as to not cause anyone else around them to worry. This reminded me of that. Wish I'd saved it... now I can't find it. :(
It's like they're trying as hard as they can to get people to want to start killing people over this. Every time I see something new come out of the criminals illegally occupying the White House right now it just makes me wonder for a moment if that's what they're really trying to do. To dig so far into the bottom of the barrel of degeneracy and contempt for our country that people will start to snap and take justifiable action to stop our screaming plummet into the void.
I mean... you just have to keep asking... is this for real? Are they serious?
Remember, we're all in this together! Think about your neighbors!
Follow @GAE on Gab for more. :)
Mental illness sure is a sad thing to see. :(
Shit happens. :)
I'm not denying that. I'm saying that it's being misrepresented as nefarious when plenty of it is not. It's an argument based on fear, ignorance, and in this case justified skepticism about China. But it's not based on what the actual research said that was being done. It's hard to take an argument seriously when it misrepresents the premise rather than being honest and then explaining the reasons for skepticism.